Okay I'm one step closer to putting this mobile rockabilly band together. I bought what looks to be a pretty entry level Empire cocktail drumset off Ebay. But being a trap set player for twenty years and having two kits already, the price was right.
So what are some of the 'headaches' I'm going to experience with trying to play this thing once it's shipped to me? The first is obviously the sympathetic buzz from the bass drum on the bottom and shared snare drum on the top. Also waht sticks does everyone use or do you use brushes or dowl rod type sticks? And how does it feel playing a 'backwards' pedal?
I'm just hoping to get some feeback from you all to let me know if this will be an easy transition for an old grizzled club drummer playing a 'normal' kit for the past 10 years?
I made the cocktail drum plunge!
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Bruce (the K)
Hey, welcome aboard.
You won't regret going upright. It's what we've evolved to do. I think that Empire kit comes with a little side snare so you can use your main drum as a floor tom and not engage the snare on it unless you want to. That gets you away from the cocktail buzz (although once you get used to it, it can be addictive).
I like the Pro-Mark Cool Rods and Vader Manhattan 7A's but lots of folks like brushes, depending on the style of music.
I've never played anything but a cocktail drum but it makes sense to me that adjusting to not using your high-hat foot would seem weird at first. Just savor all the attention and marvel at how much more you can see standing up.
Bruce (the K)
You won't regret going upright. It's what we've evolved to do. I think that Empire kit comes with a little side snare so you can use your main drum as a floor tom and not engage the snare on it unless you want to. That gets you away from the cocktail buzz (although once you get used to it, it can be addictive).
I like the Pro-Mark Cool Rods and Vader Manhattan 7A's but lots of folks like brushes, depending on the style of music.
I've never played anything but a cocktail drum but it makes sense to me that adjusting to not using your high-hat foot would seem weird at first. Just savor all the attention and marvel at how much more you can see standing up.
Bruce (the K)
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Guest
Here's what I won on Ebay. See link below. It comes with a couple of side toms but the snare is the top head on the main drum so both the bass and snare will "share" the same air chamber.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... :EOAB:US:6
I guess I'll have to do a ton of experimenting and tuning to figure out how to get a decent sound. Probably what all of you guys went through.
Thanks for just the beginning of hopefully some BIG help in the future.
Jeff.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... :EOAB:US:6
I guess I'll have to do a ton of experimenting and tuning to figure out how to get a decent sound. Probably what all of you guys went through.
Thanks for just the beginning of hopefully some BIG help in the future.
Jeff.
New Cocktail Drummer
Hey Jeff,
Welcome to the club!
Looks like these kits are basically trying to look like the Yamaha Club Jorden but not giving you the side snare. Many people do not like the Jordan snare and replace it anyway so it is probably not a big loss!
If you do want the side snare, I have seen some people take out the snare of the main drum and add it to a small tom instead. Or you could just get a snare throw-off and add that while keeping the option on the main drum.
What takes a little getting used to playing wise is the shift in balance when standing up. It will feel kind of strange at first but hang in there, you will get used to it. Also, the dynamics of the drums are a bit different. Definitely quieter than a regular kit but you will most likely find yourself using more colors from each drum which can be very musical.
Heads and tuning is hugely personal but I believe that most agree with the basic 'thicker head tuned low on bottom, thinner head tuned high on top' concept for the main drum with a snare on top.
Also very popular are those little plastic lug locks that you slip over the head of the drum lug for the bottomhead. If you tune it loose they can loosen up and fall off while your playing.
For sticks, etc. I think that it is very much worth the investment in a collection of different items (for regular kit as well). Different size sticks (especially depending on the cymbals you end up using), brushes, blasticks, hot rods, etc. Then try them all out. You will eventually find 'your zone' that suits you style and taste. I have ended up using these crazy Joe Morello Diamond Tip sticks that are basically like 7As with a tiny tip. I also use the plastic tips (which I never do otherwise) since this gives my 14" cymbal (the only one I use!) a huge range of ride and crash possibilities. I also use Blasticks taped tight about 2 inches from the end for a nice fat snare backbeat.
Hmmmm, what else? Just ask and read the forum. There is a lot of great info here from the past few years so check it out and start playing!
Good Luck,
John
Welcome to the club!
Looks like these kits are basically trying to look like the Yamaha Club Jorden but not giving you the side snare. Many people do not like the Jordan snare and replace it anyway so it is probably not a big loss!
If you do want the side snare, I have seen some people take out the snare of the main drum and add it to a small tom instead. Or you could just get a snare throw-off and add that while keeping the option on the main drum.
What takes a little getting used to playing wise is the shift in balance when standing up. It will feel kind of strange at first but hang in there, you will get used to it. Also, the dynamics of the drums are a bit different. Definitely quieter than a regular kit but you will most likely find yourself using more colors from each drum which can be very musical.
Heads and tuning is hugely personal but I believe that most agree with the basic 'thicker head tuned low on bottom, thinner head tuned high on top' concept for the main drum with a snare on top.
Also very popular are those little plastic lug locks that you slip over the head of the drum lug for the bottomhead. If you tune it loose they can loosen up and fall off while your playing.
For sticks, etc. I think that it is very much worth the investment in a collection of different items (for regular kit as well). Different size sticks (especially depending on the cymbals you end up using), brushes, blasticks, hot rods, etc. Then try them all out. You will eventually find 'your zone' that suits you style and taste. I have ended up using these crazy Joe Morello Diamond Tip sticks that are basically like 7As with a tiny tip. I also use the plastic tips (which I never do otherwise) since this gives my 14" cymbal (the only one I use!) a huge range of ride and crash possibilities. I also use Blasticks taped tight about 2 inches from the end for a nice fat snare backbeat.
Hmmmm, what else? Just ask and read the forum. There is a lot of great info here from the past few years so check it out and start playing!
Good Luck,
John
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mangorockfish
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:23 pm
- Location: arkansas
Hey Jeff,
Another welcome!! If you are anywhere close to Little Rock,AR next Sat. you can see a Cocktail Kit ( I always use captial letters because I think they deserve that respect) in action. However, I am somewhat unorthodox in that I have a standup kit that I play sitting. Still dependent on the functional hihat. I use the bottom part of a cymbal stand with a throne top on it. I think that if the main drum is miked like a regular kick drum that these kits are pretty loud. I'm using mine when we do acoustic gigs, but the boys plug into the PA and they are loud and my kit keeps up pretty well. I love mine and the you will too I'm sure.
They are so cool sounding and looking and you will probably be the only person around using one which is also very cool. You will get lots of good comments on it too. As for sticks, use whatever you want. Lots of luck, and keep us posted.
Oh, BTW, you'll have to customize it just like a regular kit. Noone uses a regular kit the way it comes out of the box and a Cocktail Kit is no different.
Another welcome!! If you are anywhere close to Little Rock,AR next Sat. you can see a Cocktail Kit ( I always use captial letters because I think they deserve that respect) in action. However, I am somewhat unorthodox in that I have a standup kit that I play sitting. Still dependent on the functional hihat. I use the bottom part of a cymbal stand with a throne top on it. I think that if the main drum is miked like a regular kick drum that these kits are pretty loud. I'm using mine when we do acoustic gigs, but the boys plug into the PA and they are loud and my kit keeps up pretty well. I love mine and the you will too I'm sure.
They are so cool sounding and looking and you will probably be the only person around using one which is also very cool. You will get lots of good comments on it too. As for sticks, use whatever you want. Lots of luck, and keep us posted.
Oh, BTW, you'll have to customize it just like a regular kit. Noone uses a regular kit the way it comes out of the box and a Cocktail Kit is no different.
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Guest
Hey dudes, Jeff here again. I accidently signed in here as Guest so I'll have to register
.
Thanks for all the tips. I'm excited and haven't received my kit, but just wanted to ask you if the kit I bought seems sturdy and decent enough to play? It's not a "name" brand but an Empire Cocktail Kit so I know it's not world class but it should get the job done, right???
Jeff
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Thanks for all the tips. I'm excited and haven't received my kit, but just wanted to ask you if the kit I bought seems sturdy and decent enough to play? It's not a "name" brand but an Empire Cocktail Kit so I know it's not world class but it should get the job done, right???
Jeff
Empire Cocktail Kit
Hello again,
I have seen some similar kits to this (I wouldn't be suprised if they were made by the same manufacturer in asia). It seems that as a lower end kit they tend to be made with cheaper materials, the shell is probably some sort of resin/wood-fiber pressboard and the hardware is probably lower quality than what you would find on a high end kit. With that said, it will probably work and sound just fine. The nice thing is if you get the drum sounding the way you like it, you can always upgrade the hardware. Just get some ludwig style floor-tom leg brackets and you're good to go.
My biggest concern with these kits is that you don't over tighten the wing nuts on the hardware. Cheaper grade metal tends to be soft and strip more easily (Old Slingerlands are well known for this).
So, for the price, this looks like a pretty good drum and if you modify it just a bit I think it will rock your world!
John
I have seen some similar kits to this (I wouldn't be suprised if they were made by the same manufacturer in asia). It seems that as a lower end kit they tend to be made with cheaper materials, the shell is probably some sort of resin/wood-fiber pressboard and the hardware is probably lower quality than what you would find on a high end kit. With that said, it will probably work and sound just fine. The nice thing is if you get the drum sounding the way you like it, you can always upgrade the hardware. Just get some ludwig style floor-tom leg brackets and you're good to go.
My biggest concern with these kits is that you don't over tighten the wing nuts on the hardware. Cheaper grade metal tends to be soft and strip more easily (Old Slingerlands are well known for this).
So, for the price, this looks like a pretty good drum and if you modify it just a bit I think it will rock your world!
John
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Guest
Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I know what you mean about cheap hardware stripping. My girlfriend had a Coda drumset and surprise! the cheap hardware stripped all the time. But hopefully if I get every thing set I can leave the hardware alone. The wood is probably cheap, no doubt but due to the small size of the extra drums and with the right tuning and heads, I can get her to sound decent. I once went to the Guitar Center here and they had a kids' drumset on the floor with new Remo Pinstripes tuned just right. That kit sounded awesome and you KNOW it was made of balsa wood or something!
I'll let you guys know how this all works out when I get it.
Jeff
I'll let you guys know how this all works out when I get it.
Jeff