Well there, I went and did it: I ordered an 8-ply 24x14 shell from Anderson. Can't seem to locate an internal tone control with a throw-off, though. I used to have a cheap Imperial Star snare that had such a feature, which I think is ideal for a cocktail drum -- particularly because I don't intend to mount toms.
Ever see one anywhere? I mean, you'd think Gibraltar at least, right? But no. I suppose I could go hunting (been trying e-bay), but I wanna get on this!
Any alternative ideas for a throw-off?
ever see an int. tone control w/throw-off?
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fw
alternative
I've never seen a muffler with a throw off--cool idea.
On the drum I'm building, I just took an old Ludwig dial-style muffler, took the muffling pad off, and welded 4" of snare wire to it. The welding didn't take too well, so after a while, I just used tape and it works fine. The snares were the type that accept mylar film instead of cord, so I could slide them onto the arm of the mufflerless muffler no problem. It's sturdy. The disadvantage is that I have to turn a dial to adjust snare tension--I don't have a throw-off. The advantage is that it is easy, sturdy, and cheap. Also, I believe almost all snares on the old cocktail sets basically used modified tone-arm mufflers. I've never seen one with a throw off.
Dinkus came up with a crazy dual-snare system on his Club Jordan kit. He has the standard snares underneath the head, but some crazy throw-off thing on top of the head. He posted it on here somewhere, and if I remember right, he could turn the top snares on and off instantly.
On the drum I'm building, I just took an old Ludwig dial-style muffler, took the muffling pad off, and welded 4" of snare wire to it. The welding didn't take too well, so after a while, I just used tape and it works fine. The snares were the type that accept mylar film instead of cord, so I could slide them onto the arm of the mufflerless muffler no problem. It's sturdy. The disadvantage is that I have to turn a dial to adjust snare tension--I don't have a throw-off. The advantage is that it is easy, sturdy, and cheap. Also, I believe almost all snares on the old cocktail sets basically used modified tone-arm mufflers. I've never seen one with a throw off.
Dinkus came up with a crazy dual-snare system on his Club Jordan kit. He has the standard snares underneath the head, but some crazy throw-off thing on top of the head. He posted it on here somewhere, and if I remember right, he could turn the top snares on and off instantly.
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kylebronsdon
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fw
a weird idea
Okay, this would work better with a diagram, but bear with me.
Imagine some sort of flexible metal that would retain its shape (like you'd find in a tone arm muffler) bent to about a 70 degree angle. You'd have to cut a small slot in the drum about an inch from the head. Where the bend goes, weld a small, thin bar and make two tiny metal loopy things on either side to hold the bar into the shell. Weld snare wire to one end of the metal arm, stick it through the inside of the drum so the other part sticks out of the drum, attach the loopy things on either side of the bar to make a hinge. Then make a small Z-shaped hinge thing below the part of the metal arm that you could use as a latch. You wiggle the metal arm underneath the latch for snares on, and unlatch it for snares off. The downside is that the only adjustment you could make for the snares is to rebend the arm, but the good side is that the snares will be underneath the top head for brushes.
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This is a crappy drawing of what I mean, and it probably will get reformatted and make even less sense.
FW
Imagine some sort of flexible metal that would retain its shape (like you'd find in a tone arm muffler) bent to about a 70 degree angle. You'd have to cut a small slot in the drum about an inch from the head. Where the bend goes, weld a small, thin bar and make two tiny metal loopy things on either side to hold the bar into the shell. Weld snare wire to one end of the metal arm, stick it through the inside of the drum so the other part sticks out of the drum, attach the loopy things on either side of the bar to make a hinge. Then make a small Z-shaped hinge thing below the part of the metal arm that you could use as a latch. You wiggle the metal arm underneath the latch for snares on, and unlatch it for snares off. The downside is that the only adjustment you could make for the snares is to rebend the arm, but the good side is that the snares will be underneath the top head for brushes.
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This is a crappy drawing of what I mean, and it probably will get reformatted and make even less sense.
FW
Throw Off
Hey Kyle,
I have an old (80s) Tama Artstar with the quick release muffler you're talking about. It's very cool: There is an outer ring that when rotated 180 degrees pulls the muffler far away from the underside of the head. The muffler position is still adjusted by a threaded knob i n the center of the ring. I have no idea if anybody makes these any more. I have alsways wanted to find one to try with a cocktail snare!
John
I have an old (80s) Tama Artstar with the quick release muffler you're talking about. It's very cool: There is an outer ring that when rotated 180 degrees pulls the muffler far away from the underside of the head. The muffler position is still adjusted by a threaded knob i n the center of the ring. I have no idea if anybody makes these any more. I have alsways wanted to find one to try with a cocktail snare!
John
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kylebronsdon
Yep, that's it -- they called it their One-Touch Tone Control. It doesn't surprise me that no one tried to further Tama's concept, seeing as you seldom have to mute or unmute the snare on the fly. Drummaker.com has an internal muffler (item #5720) that, from the small picture, appears to have that collar. I ordered two, just in case...I'll let you know!
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fw
Dude--I totally forgot--a part that is probably even more available than the Artstar throw off is the sixties Ludwig "baseball batt" type muffler on the old supraphonics. By the seventies, they had a dial type, but the baseball batt was just a lever you could twist about 90 degrees. If you imagine a backward "L", the base of the L would be off, and the top of the "L" would be "on". If you attached snare wires, you'd be set. Do a search for The Drum Station in Grand Rapids, MI. The owner can track down almost any Ludwig part at a close to reasonable rate. Also, I've seen them on E-Bay and Cherie Willoughby's site--repercussions.com I believe it's called, or rebeats.com.
FW
FW
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kylebronsdon
I've seen those, but they're pretty much as hard to come by (or close to as expensive as buying an imperial star snare) as a one-touch. Why aren't THOSE kind of tone controls made anymore, though? A simple and elegant design...why, it's almost something I could rig up...!
Well, anyway, cross your fingers -- maybe drummaker will come through!
Well, anyway, cross your fingers -- maybe drummaker will come through!
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Keith Cronin
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Mon May 13, 2002 8:21 am
Also look into marching snare drums. I know I've seen several that had internal snare mechanisms for snares under the top head. Not sure how easy that would be to adapt to a cocktail drum, but it's worth investigating. I think Premier did this, but I'd check all the makers of marching drums and drums for Scottish drumming.
KC
my cocktail kit
KC
my cocktail kit
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fw
http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/hammond/24/id23.htm
Here's a link for the Ludwig part--unfortunately, it's $35.
I read in Modern Drummer that most drummers hated the baseball bat muffler. I don't understand why--I think it looks cooler and is more flexible than the dial up muffler on my 70's Super Sensitive. I almost never use the muffler anyway, but I like that with the baseball bat design, you can apply just the tiniest edge of the muffler pad--you don't have to use a full felt disc. Plus, they don't rattle like the dial up ones often due.
Here's a link for the Ludwig part--unfortunately, it's $35.
I read in Modern Drummer that most drummers hated the baseball bat muffler. I don't understand why--I think it looks cooler and is more flexible than the dial up muffler on my 70's Super Sensitive. I almost never use the muffler anyway, but I like that with the baseball bat design, you can apply just the tiniest edge of the muffler pad--you don't have to use a full felt disc. Plus, they don't rattle like the dial up ones often due.
Baseball Bat Muffler
I remember the basebal bats too! It's a cool idea but there are two potential draw backs.
1) They did sometimes get loose after a while so that they didn't hold their position so well.
2) Part of what made these work is that you are using the compression of the felt to set the tension. Perhaps you could put a small strip of felt at the point where the snare first touches the head?
I also wonder how the snare would work in terms of tension since it would be adjusted by tilting the snare strip at an angle...
Just some thoughts.
John
1) They did sometimes get loose after a while so that they didn't hold their position so well.
2) Part of what made these work is that you are using the compression of the felt to set the tension. Perhaps you could put a small strip of felt at the point where the snare first touches the head?
I also wonder how the snare would work in terms of tension since it would be adjusted by tilting the snare strip at an angle...
Just some thoughts.
John
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kylebronsdon
SWEET -- the part from drummaker.com wasn't kosher, but Gibraltar does, in fact, make one w/a throw off! The number is SC-4400, so anybody that distributes their stuff can order it for you. It retails around $15, so you should pay under 10 at any Guitar Center type place. NOW, let's all buy a half-dozen each so they keep making them!
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/rehobothmus ... tonco.html
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/rehobothmus ... tonco.html
Gibraltar Tone Control
Wow! Nice find Kyle!!
I'll add this to the store later but you can go to Musicians Friend from the store:
http://www.cocktaildrum.com/shop.html
and lookup item number 446175
it's only $8.99!!!
John
I'll add this to the store later but you can go to Musicians Friend from the store:
http://www.cocktaildrum.com/shop.html
and lookup item number 446175
it's only $8.99!!!
John
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kylebronsdon
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fw
Wow...I checked out the Gibraltar part, and it looks cool, but I can't figure out how it has a throw-off. It looks like a more or less standard dial-up muffler. Can someone explain it to me?
Also, I thought of another idea that would work. My wife has a 60's Zimgar Japanese set, and the snare mechanism has a top-mounted lever that slides from left(on) to right (off). As it slides, the snare mechanism lowers at the same ratio as the lever. It has a dial to adjust tension.
If you could somehow affix a snare fan at a 90 degree angle to the place where the snares attach (perhaps be welding the snares to a small L-bracket and fastening the bracket to the snare plate, and then mount the whole thing upside down so that the on-position = off and the off position=on, you'd have an adjustable throwoff that doesn't have to twist the snares like the baseball bat muffler would. My old CB 700 set has a similar snare mechanism--I think they are common as cheap Japanese replacement parts.
Still, if the Gibraltar muffler has a throwoff, for $9 you can't go wrong. Could someone explain it to me? If it has a throwoff, it beats my dial-up system, and I'd upgrade in a second.
Also, I thought of another idea that would work. My wife has a 60's Zimgar Japanese set, and the snare mechanism has a top-mounted lever that slides from left(on) to right (off). As it slides, the snare mechanism lowers at the same ratio as the lever. It has a dial to adjust tension.
If you could somehow affix a snare fan at a 90 degree angle to the place where the snares attach (perhaps be welding the snares to a small L-bracket and fastening the bracket to the snare plate, and then mount the whole thing upside down so that the on-position = off and the off position=on, you'd have an adjustable throwoff that doesn't have to twist the snares like the baseball bat muffler would. My old CB 700 set has a similar snare mechanism--I think they are common as cheap Japanese replacement parts.
Still, if the Gibraltar muffler has a throwoff, for $9 you can't go wrong. Could someone explain it to me? If it has a throwoff, it beats my dial-up system, and I'd upgrade in a second.