I've only ever owned full kits (first an old Tama and now a new DW set) and know nothing about standing and playing. I'm tall (6'5"), so am concerned about how my height will affect me playing from a standing position. That said, and given how tired I am of the load in/load out, I'm definitely in the market for a cocktail kit and would love to hear some feedback from folks on this list about their experiences in purchasing kits. The best metrics for this comparison (in NO specific order) might be: price, portability and sound quality, but i'm interested in any advice/opinions that can be shared. On this subject, please.
In particular, i'm looking at the Slingerland Expresso and the Rick Marotta Hipgig (both seated, right?), but would love feedback on the standing kits: the Club Jordan, Empire and the GP (?) cocktail kits. The GP cocktail sets are currently being sold by a vendor called BlueValley on Ebay which i found under the search "cocktail drums".
Thanks, and looking forward to hearing back before I make the plunge!
Michael
Atlanta, Ga.
Cocktail kit comparisons
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mangorockfish
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:23 pm
- Location: arkansas
Welcome Mike,
You have found a great place for learning about Cocktail Kits. I am a set player from way back and have recently started playing my Cocktail Kit out with my band. I, however sit down to play mine. It is a regular Cocktail Kit and I use a tall stool. You can check it out on the Kit Page. Mine is hte champagne sparkle kit. I say that if you're going to get one, get a good one to beginwith. Good luck.
Mango'
You have found a great place for learning about Cocktail Kits. I am a set player from way back and have recently started playing my Cocktail Kit out with my band. I, however sit down to play mine. It is a regular Cocktail Kit and I use a tall stool. You can check it out on the Kit Page. Mine is hte champagne sparkle kit. I say that if you're going to get one, get a good one to beginwith. Good luck.
Mango'
Kit Comparison
Hey Michael,
Welcome to the world of endless options!
The stand up kits you mention specifically are the two extreme ends of the Cocktail Drum spectrum in terms of quality:
The Empire adn GP are very inexpensive, lower grade kits (I believe they are both from the same maker in Taiwan). I think that most people use these as a way to make an inexpensive start into cocktail drumming but find that much of the hardware needs replacing to handle the wear and tear of regular use. I am pretty certain the shells are wood fiber/resin shells like the low end Remo drums. Certainly usable but not the same standard as high quality wood.
The Club Jordan is a completely professionaly made kit using high end Yamaha shells and hardware (hence the price tag). The club jordan also comes with an 8" snare where the other kits I believe have 2 toms and only the internal snare on the main drum.
There are several other options out there in the middle price range that are VERY MUCH worth exploring. Many people here have opted to get a custom built drum from Dennis at Phattie drums ( http://phattiedrums.com/ ). He is very helpfull in making the exact kit that you want. He might be able to make a taller (than the typical 24" height) drum for you.
Whiteney Drums ( http://www.whitneydrums.com/ ) also has an interesting shell design and I believe that he is willing to do custom work for his customers.
And of course you can get a vintage drum from a vintage drum dealer or ebay.
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I am guessing that because of your height you will want something a bit taller than the standard height drum. Most tall people that I know already have some level of back problems and hunching over a cocktail drum is not going to help! I am 6'-even and I feel like the 24" tall drum is at the perfect height. Even so, long gigs can be very tiring. I like the cocktail drum best when I play just one set at a club (40min - 1.5 hrs). Occasionaly I do the 4 hour gig on the cocktail and by the end of the night I am often (but not always) sore.
Besides getting a taller drum you may have a couple of other options:
1) Sit on a tall stool like Mango!
2) Find a pedal with some height adjustment (the old Slingerland pedal built into a floor tom leg has this. Also the DW sidekiick has some height adjustment as well) then raise the drum up higher on the legs.
3) If you are going to use the main drum as a floor tom (not your main snare) it might be at an OK height as it is. But you will want to get the right hardware that will allow you to raise the side snare and tom up higher (usually they are set at the same playing level as the main drum)
Also check out the links page ( http://www.cocktaildrum.com/links ) for some other fine cocktail drum makers
Keep us posted on how your search goes!
John
Welcome to the world of endless options!
The stand up kits you mention specifically are the two extreme ends of the Cocktail Drum spectrum in terms of quality:
The Empire adn GP are very inexpensive, lower grade kits (I believe they are both from the same maker in Taiwan). I think that most people use these as a way to make an inexpensive start into cocktail drumming but find that much of the hardware needs replacing to handle the wear and tear of regular use. I am pretty certain the shells are wood fiber/resin shells like the low end Remo drums. Certainly usable but not the same standard as high quality wood.
The Club Jordan is a completely professionaly made kit using high end Yamaha shells and hardware (hence the price tag). The club jordan also comes with an 8" snare where the other kits I believe have 2 toms and only the internal snare on the main drum.
There are several other options out there in the middle price range that are VERY MUCH worth exploring. Many people here have opted to get a custom built drum from Dennis at Phattie drums ( http://phattiedrums.com/ ). He is very helpfull in making the exact kit that you want. He might be able to make a taller (than the typical 24" height) drum for you.
Whiteney Drums ( http://www.whitneydrums.com/ ) also has an interesting shell design and I believe that he is willing to do custom work for his customers.
And of course you can get a vintage drum from a vintage drum dealer or ebay.
------------
I am guessing that because of your height you will want something a bit taller than the standard height drum. Most tall people that I know already have some level of back problems and hunching over a cocktail drum is not going to help! I am 6'-even and I feel like the 24" tall drum is at the perfect height. Even so, long gigs can be very tiring. I like the cocktail drum best when I play just one set at a club (40min - 1.5 hrs). Occasionaly I do the 4 hour gig on the cocktail and by the end of the night I am often (but not always) sore.
Besides getting a taller drum you may have a couple of other options:
1) Sit on a tall stool like Mango!
2) Find a pedal with some height adjustment (the old Slingerland pedal built into a floor tom leg has this. Also the DW sidekiick has some height adjustment as well) then raise the drum up higher on the legs.
3) If you are going to use the main drum as a floor tom (not your main snare) it might be at an OK height as it is. But you will want to get the right hardware that will allow you to raise the side snare and tom up higher (usually they are set at the same playing level as the main drum)
Also check out the links page ( http://www.cocktaildrum.com/links ) for some other fine cocktail drum makers
Keep us posted on how your search goes!
John
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Guest
I have a Slingerland Expresso. For what I do, mostly bar and club gigs where we play blues and old rock tunes, it it great. For what it costs, I paid $300 on sale at musicyo.com, you can't beat it.
Packing it is easy, the mounted tom and snare fit into a plastic milk crate. The cymbal arms fit into your stick bag, and the only thing that is normal sized when broke down is the throne and the hi-hat stand.
My only gripe about the kit is that the stock heads are not the best. But most people don't like whatever heads their kit comes with, so that's no big deal. The sound is nice when not miced. When you do require a little more volume, you can do it with two mics.
If you get one, don't let the hardware fool you, mine has held up under some pretty rough sessions. I very highly recommend one.
Packing it is easy, the mounted tom and snare fit into a plastic milk crate. The cymbal arms fit into your stick bag, and the only thing that is normal sized when broke down is the throne and the hi-hat stand.
My only gripe about the kit is that the stock heads are not the best. But most people don't like whatever heads their kit comes with, so that's no big deal. The sound is nice when not miced. When you do require a little more volume, you can do it with two mics.
If you get one, don't let the hardware fool you, mine has held up under some pretty rough sessions. I very highly recommend one.
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Michael
Thanks, but more ?'s
Thanks for all of the feedback. Given my height, i'm thinking that standing and playing might be somewhat of a crowd distraction from the acoustic guys i'd be playing with. Thus, I'm leaning towards the seated Slingerland Expresso. The local drum shop guru said that, since the Gibson buyout of Slingerland, they're not as quality of a product as they used to be, which concerns me. Ultimately, the real problem i have is that i can't find an Expresso kit that i can visit locally to see if it will be a good fit or not. Which is why all of your replies help making the plunge a bit less scary. Still, I need to find a place where i can actually try these kits out.
The above said, I didn't hear alot about the Rick Marotta Hipgig. Does this kit not fall under the genre of cocktail drums? If not, apologies. But if so, any feedback on these ultra-portable looking drums would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks for helping out the newbie,
Michael
Atlanta, Ga.
The above said, I didn't hear alot about the Rick Marotta Hipgig. Does this kit not fall under the genre of cocktail drums? If not, apologies. But if so, any feedback on these ultra-portable looking drums would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks for helping out the newbie,
Michael
Atlanta, Ga.
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Bruce (the K)
Hey Michael,
Welcome aboard! As you can see, lots of us find your question interesting and intriguing. Maybe I shouldn't even be speaking up, given that I'm only 5' 7" but I had to put in a plug for the Peace Manhattan cocktail kit. It comes with fairly long legs and the snare (which is suspended by three rods above the kick drum) can be raised up too so it should work well, even for a very tall standing player.
The only issue with the legs fully extended is how well the footpedal will do in hitting the kick drum head. While the pedal that comes with the kit is fine, I've switched over to the DW Sidekick pedal which, as John pointed out, can be adjusted to hit the drum, no matter how high you raise the drum up. You can also get a set of DW accessory parts that let you raise the heel of the pedal up so the pedal angle works better for a standing player.
A big plus with the Manhattan compared to the other kits mentioned is that it features a standard, 5 1/2 x 14 wooden snare rather than a small side snare or a single snare/bass combo drum.
The Manhattan is not up there with the Club Jordan in terms of quality (I've owned both) but I definitely find the quality reasonable and the sound very good.
Check out the Cocktail Lounge Shop elsewhere on this site for info on the Peace Manhattan from Music123.com, where I bought mine.
I think we're all vicariously enjoying your exploration of the options open to cocktail drummers.
Good luck.
Bruce (the K)
Welcome aboard! As you can see, lots of us find your question interesting and intriguing. Maybe I shouldn't even be speaking up, given that I'm only 5' 7" but I had to put in a plug for the Peace Manhattan cocktail kit. It comes with fairly long legs and the snare (which is suspended by three rods above the kick drum) can be raised up too so it should work well, even for a very tall standing player.
The only issue with the legs fully extended is how well the footpedal will do in hitting the kick drum head. While the pedal that comes with the kit is fine, I've switched over to the DW Sidekick pedal which, as John pointed out, can be adjusted to hit the drum, no matter how high you raise the drum up. You can also get a set of DW accessory parts that let you raise the heel of the pedal up so the pedal angle works better for a standing player.
A big plus with the Manhattan compared to the other kits mentioned is that it features a standard, 5 1/2 x 14 wooden snare rather than a small side snare or a single snare/bass combo drum.
The Manhattan is not up there with the Club Jordan in terms of quality (I've owned both) but I definitely find the quality reasonable and the sound very good.
Check out the Cocktail Lounge Shop elsewhere on this site for info on the Peace Manhattan from Music123.com, where I bought mine.
I think we're all vicariously enjoying your exploration of the options open to cocktail drummers.
Good luck.
Bruce (the K)
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fw
Hey!
I've played a few hipgig sets at Guitar Center in Detroit, and they are some phat sets. I'd change the pinstripes out myself, but I love the bass drum.
I don't think they really fit into the cocktail category, and they are very expensive. I think both the hipgigs and club jordans are a bit overpriced, given that much of the shell composition is Philipine mahogany, aka luan. But the birch makes the drums punchy and beautiful, so it's only the price, not the sound that annoys me.
The Slingerland drums offered on musicyo have nothing to do with Slingerland other than the name. A lot of US companies faced that sort of issue in their last days--they made cheap knockoffs, then sold the name to the companies that made the knock-offs. The real Slingerlands are American made right now and very expensive. Musicyo deals exclusively in low-grade imports. Still, for $300 for a full cocktail set with hardware, who cares. I think that's a great deal, and the colors they offer are pretty sharp. I'm sure if you don't like them, you're just out shipping.
Cocktails sound way different than regular sets. If you want an easy to transport conventional set, the hip gig is probably your best choice. I used to have a Remo Legero, and it didn't sound nearly as cool as the hip gig. If you want something more Frankensteinish but still want to sit down, the Expresso is probably a good way to go.
If you want to figure out if you'd like the Expresso, take your smallest tom, your floor tom, your snare, whatever cymbals you want, and a felt strip. Take the bottom head off your floor tom, mute it with the felt strip, and tune the bottom head as loose as you can without losing tone. Then tune up your top head and tighten the muffler if you have one. Switch the cam around on your bass drum pedal, and voila--instant Expresso. If you like that sound, you'll probably like the Expresso. If you don't, don't get one. Either way, you might not need to get one if you can just convert your main axe. But the hardware features on the Expresso are nice, and you won't have to rebuild your main set every time you want to cross over.
I've played a few hipgig sets at Guitar Center in Detroit, and they are some phat sets. I'd change the pinstripes out myself, but I love the bass drum.
I don't think they really fit into the cocktail category, and they are very expensive. I think both the hipgigs and club jordans are a bit overpriced, given that much of the shell composition is Philipine mahogany, aka luan. But the birch makes the drums punchy and beautiful, so it's only the price, not the sound that annoys me.
The Slingerland drums offered on musicyo have nothing to do with Slingerland other than the name. A lot of US companies faced that sort of issue in their last days--they made cheap knockoffs, then sold the name to the companies that made the knock-offs. The real Slingerlands are American made right now and very expensive. Musicyo deals exclusively in low-grade imports. Still, for $300 for a full cocktail set with hardware, who cares. I think that's a great deal, and the colors they offer are pretty sharp. I'm sure if you don't like them, you're just out shipping.
Cocktails sound way different than regular sets. If you want an easy to transport conventional set, the hip gig is probably your best choice. I used to have a Remo Legero, and it didn't sound nearly as cool as the hip gig. If you want something more Frankensteinish but still want to sit down, the Expresso is probably a good way to go.
If you want to figure out if you'd like the Expresso, take your smallest tom, your floor tom, your snare, whatever cymbals you want, and a felt strip. Take the bottom head off your floor tom, mute it with the felt strip, and tune the bottom head as loose as you can without losing tone. Then tune up your top head and tighten the muffler if you have one. Switch the cam around on your bass drum pedal, and voila--instant Expresso. If you like that sound, you'll probably like the Expresso. If you don't, don't get one. Either way, you might not need to get one if you can just convert your main axe. But the hardware features on the Expresso are nice, and you won't have to rebuild your main set every time you want to cross over.
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SJB05