Cocktail drums and rock

[Anonymous]

Hello,

I finally registered after browsing this forum for a couple of days. I'm not really interested in getting myself a cocktail set right now, but as I enjoy tinkering with stuff I am thinking if I stumble upon the right used parts it could be fun to just buy them so I could try to make my own cocktail set later. Soo..

I am thinking of making a cocktail set mainly for rock. I guess that means a punchy bassdrum and a tight snare. I am thinking of maybe making this set out of a used tom, but I realize I might have to re-think that part.

So, say I got hold of a 16"x16" tom like the Rogers "Parklane" (or 16" wide 18" deep if I could find it). Would this be a good start for a punchy bassdrum? On the other hand, would it compromise the snare too much, as to the point where the snare starts to get "saggy"?

Would I be better off getting a shell from AIT, so I could go witht a drum 24" deep? I'm guessing 16" x 24" would be heavy to lug around, so maybe I would have to downsize to 13" or 14" then, and then again.. what kind of bass should I expect from the bass-drum?

Anyways, a lot of questions, but it seems a lot of you are experienced in this field and would know what kind of sound different shells produces.

Thank you.

Edit: I forgot to say. For starters, I'm only interested in one drum. I guess I'd make a combined tom/snare later to attach to it, but I want the freedom of being able to just bring that one drum together with a cymbal when space is cramped and I want an easy setup.

[multiperc]

Let me be the first to welcome you here!

Interesting post and good questions. Since you've been looking around this forum you may have seen some of the discussion on music styles played and other discussions on tuning. Also quite a lot on DYI kits. Be sure to use the search function to find specific items or topics.

Hopefully more players using one drum will respond to this, especially those who play rock or just harder - seems that some here are playing swing, blues, country, or other styles where playing is on the softer side.

I got into the cocktail thing wanting a kit that I could schlep conveniently, setup quickly and in small space and could compliment different music styles. I ended up building a maple kit using AIT shells however 24x14 was the size I determined would satisfy the first 2 of my needs. I use a side snare so that I can have more tuning options on the big drum and to have a 2nd tom from the big drum. Also a side snare allows me more flexibility with my snare independent of the big drum. So in a sense, designing this kit required comprimises. It's not the zen beauty of 'one drum' but instead a cool and quirky kit sound that is reasonably versatile, looks great, and is portable.

Lastly I should say that while I've played 'Purple Haze' on this kit (a purplehaze smiley would be handy right here), it's not a rock kit, per se. Not great for bombastic playing, but a unique sound like no other kit I own or have heard.

All said there are a bunch of posts here about DiY kits from 16" toms and more on tuning those. Perhaps your needs are in that range. Perhaps a stacked 18" tom with a fullsized snare mounted above (somewhat like DW's kit) may be more to what you're looking for.

Good luck on your quest and post back!

[Anonymous]

Hey thanks for your quick reply and your welcoming.

I'll look some more for the DIY-posts with 16" that you talked about. Never stumbled upon those but, as you said, the search function is a great thing.

Now, the DW doesn't look that great, if you ask me. It looks, as you describe in your post, as stacked drums.

I'll search a bit more for rockers aswell. Only one I could see was captainnemo, but his kit is somewhat bigger than what I'm interested in lugging around. I'll keep looking.

[Anonymous]

Hey thanks for your quick reply and your welcoming.

I'll look some more for the DIY-posts with 16" that you talked about. Never stumbled upon those but, as you said, the search function is a great thing.

Now, the DW doesn't look that great, if you ask me. It looks, as you describe in your post, as stacked drums.

I'll search a bit more for rockers aswell. Only one I could see was captainnemo, but his kit is somewhat bigger than what I'm interested in lugging around. I'll keep looking.

Edit: one more thing I've been thinking about is the heads. I'm wondering if it would be best to replace the bottom hardware and hoop on the drum so that I could mount a regular bassdrum-head instead of a tom-head. But then again, would it affect the sound of the snare too much? (That is, if there exists such a thing as 16" bassdrum heads.. I had a look at Evans' page and they only went down to 18")

[multiperc]

If you look at some of the earlier cocktail models (see the gallery), the Carlton in particular includes a vertical 20" tom/bass. Some models have a wood hoop on the bottom.

Not too sure about the benefit of using a bass drum head over a tom head, or if there's a significant difference (other than the collar). This may be more relevant given diameter - can one get a 14, 15, or 16" bassdrum head?

Also wanted to point to Swampgass' kit and pics - this is an example of a 16x16 in a portable 'micro' kit configuration:
http://photobucket.com/albums/a98/Swamp ... 20Project/

There's some discussion about tuning and this kit too. Also see expresso models which are based on a similar design.

I've used this '16x16 as kick/tom' arrangement too, in sit-down fashion. Benefits include a lower fundamental pitch from the kick and exactly the snare sound you want. Downside is that it's a bit more to lug around than an all-in one (or so) kit and unless you've installed some mounting on the big drum, more stands.

Tuning is its own challenge with this kick/snare - IMHO it can more boomy than punchy. Definitely not a bad thing but not like the pitch focus or thump of a 20 or 22" kick drum.

[Anonymous]

Thanks again for answering, and for the links. I've had a look at the swampgass before, I guess this is some of the same I would do for my first drum, just to see if I like it. Just one open drum, with snares on the top head and no "air-stopper" in the middle if I can get the snares to be relatively silent.

You are right. There doesn't seem to be any 16" bass-drum heads around. But wouldn't a bassdrum head be thicker end endure more of the "heavy beating" it would get in a rock-setting? Would a tom-head get just as good sound? The new Evans EC2 tom-head might be worth a try, though. Seems to have good damping and stuff.

Another option would be to actually go the extra mile and get an 18"er. But I guess for a "first try" it is best and less costly to just use a 16". (Though one 18" BD and one 18" tom connected together as they do with some smaller cocktail kits would be cool, as long as I could somehow manage to get the snare to sound halfway ok. Would be big, though.)

Guess I'll just have to see whatever floats my way of the cheapo used drums.

[multiperc]

Yeah, I can't speak to how a 16 or 18" with snares will sound, though I imagine it will be more like a field drum than a typical snappy snare. You'll have a bunch of experimenting to do with snare fans, tuning and possibly porting. But it all depends what you're after.

For a kick head, you should do fine with a Powerstroke3 or an Evans reverse dot. You'll again need to experiment with tuning, adding an impact pad at beater spot, beater type, possibly a felt strip inside, cotton balls inside or other muffling techniques. Also recommended by many are lug locks for the bottom lug rods since the bottom head will be tuned low.

[multiperc]

Another thought on this...(I seem to be thinking about this since I've had to play some louder driving pop songs on my cocktail kit)....

How much volume/power are you're expecting from this design? In theory, you're talking about a smaller kick than would be typically considered for a 'rock' sound. You may find yourself playing harder than you expect and it's possible for a vertical kick drum to, how should I say this...launch under heavier playing. I've experienced this on my kit and I noticed that when I was going for that much extra power, it didn't sound as good...almost chocked. At that point, the band I was with was going to be playing a sizable venue and the whole kit was mic'd. I was able to ease up and I got a better sound through the pa - kinda solved that problem.

Also I mentioned in the previous that 'tuning is its own challenge with this kick/snare' referring to the 16x16 w snare micro kit. I meant to say 'kick/tom' as that kit includes a side snare.

[Anonymous]

MultiPerc, I believe I know what you're saying with the "choked" sound. I guess the "launching" could be prevented by attaching the beater to all three tom-legs, no? But still, it might not sound good when kicked too hard.

lug locks sound like a good idea, btw.