How do I stop double bounce on kick side of main drum?
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daviddrums
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:41 pm
How do I stop double bounce on kick side of main drum?
I just bought a cocktail kit. It has a separate side snare, so I use the top of the main drum as a tom and the bottom as a kick. I have achieved a fairly decent tuning, but when I use my kick pedal on the bottom, it has a tendency to double bounce on the bottom head. Normally this is solved on a regular kit by cutting a vent in the back head. This is obviously impossible with a cocktail main drum, as the back head is the top head. I have tried loosening and tightening the heads, different beaters (soft and hard felt and solid DW type), different playing techniques, and nothing seems to help. There is a tiny air hole which you normally find on most drums. I do not want to cut a vent hole in the drum. Does anyone have any other suggestions as to how to solve this problem?
Hi David,
Are you saying that the beater literally rebounds off of the head and then strikes again? If so, this really is a technique issue. Muffling the bottom head might help a little bit but you absolutely can control this with your playing style.
Sounds like you are striking the kick drum and then keeping the beater pressed against the head. Playing this way always has the potential for having a small rebound stroke. There are really three options to try and control this:
1) Put more pressure into the pedal after you complete the stroke. This is more of a rock technique and can work great for big rock kick sounds. With a Cocktail Drum you will be cutting off the vibration of the bottom head which could result in a less full, more papery sound. I personally have never played the Cocktail Kit this way except to use as an effect.
2) Play lighter. If you put all of your energy into playing the stoke loud, the beater will want to bounce. If you play with less force and more control you should be able to get this under control. Are you playing with a band? That will determine how load you need to be.
3) Let the beater rebound fully off of the head with each stroke. This is the technique I find most useful on the cocktail. It allows the head to resonate just like all the other drums. That little bit of extra resonance can really make the difference between a full kick sound and a weak one. It also let's me play faster since I find the Cocktail configuration a little more sluggish than a typical kick. If the beater comes back right away, it is ready for the next stroke.
Play around with all of these options and see what works best for you. Don't be surprised if the best thing for the Cocktail Kit is different than the best thing for traditional kit. Cocktail Drum is it's own beast!
- John
Are you saying that the beater literally rebounds off of the head and then strikes again? If so, this really is a technique issue. Muffling the bottom head might help a little bit but you absolutely can control this with your playing style.
Sounds like you are striking the kick drum and then keeping the beater pressed against the head. Playing this way always has the potential for having a small rebound stroke. There are really three options to try and control this:
1) Put more pressure into the pedal after you complete the stroke. This is more of a rock technique and can work great for big rock kick sounds. With a Cocktail Drum you will be cutting off the vibration of the bottom head which could result in a less full, more papery sound. I personally have never played the Cocktail Kit this way except to use as an effect.
2) Play lighter. If you put all of your energy into playing the stoke loud, the beater will want to bounce. If you play with less force and more control you should be able to get this under control. Are you playing with a band? That will determine how load you need to be.
3) Let the beater rebound fully off of the head with each stroke. This is the technique I find most useful on the cocktail. It allows the head to resonate just like all the other drums. That little bit of extra resonance can really make the difference between a full kick sound and a weak one. It also let's me play faster since I find the Cocktail configuration a little more sluggish than a typical kick. If the beater comes back right away, it is ready for the next stroke.
Play around with all of these options and see what works best for you. Don't be surprised if the best thing for the Cocktail Kit is different than the best thing for traditional kit. Cocktail Drum is it's own beast!
- John
I am a total cocktail newbie so this is as much of a new question as it is an answer to the original post.
I have tried a no-hole front bass skin on my traditional drums and I always had the same problem, especially when trying to get in fast little 16th's on the kick. While I would agree that it may be partly technique, I think it is to do with all that air in the drum that is pushed around with no where to go. If you were a pro drummer with no day-job and nothing to do but revise your technique, I would say change your foot style. I have been using the same foot style/technique for 20 years, so I would rather make my gear suit me, instead of the other way around.
Because a skin with a hole in it is not an option with a cocktail kit, are larger vent holes on the side of the shell an option? I saw the green sparkle kit in the "Construction" section with all the vent holes cut into it. While I am not sure I like the way it looks, if a vent hole was placed inconspicuously on the players side of the shell it may be a good solution.
I am building my own cocktail set and I have thought about this. For now, I think I will put 2 or 3 of the usual 1/2" vent holes/grommets around the shell to see if that does much, but if I still get the rebound problem, I am not averse to cutting a 1-1/2 or 2" vent into the shell.
One solution to the rebound problem may also be to have a really slack tension on the bass drum side, but a bass drum that sounds like beating a cardboard box is not my idea of cool.
I would be interested in hearing some experienced players chime in on this.
R
I have tried a no-hole front bass skin on my traditional drums and I always had the same problem, especially when trying to get in fast little 16th's on the kick. While I would agree that it may be partly technique, I think it is to do with all that air in the drum that is pushed around with no where to go. If you were a pro drummer with no day-job and nothing to do but revise your technique, I would say change your foot style. I have been using the same foot style/technique for 20 years, so I would rather make my gear suit me, instead of the other way around.
Because a skin with a hole in it is not an option with a cocktail kit, are larger vent holes on the side of the shell an option? I saw the green sparkle kit in the "Construction" section with all the vent holes cut into it. While I am not sure I like the way it looks, if a vent hole was placed inconspicuously on the players side of the shell it may be a good solution.
I am building my own cocktail set and I have thought about this. For now, I think I will put 2 or 3 of the usual 1/2" vent holes/grommets around the shell to see if that does much, but if I still get the rebound problem, I am not averse to cutting a 1-1/2 or 2" vent into the shell.
One solution to the rebound problem may also be to have a really slack tension on the bass drum side, but a bass drum that sounds like beating a cardboard box is not my idea of cool.
I would be interested in hearing some experienced players chime in on this.
R
Couldn't you just adjust the spring tension on your pedal?
You might want to try a few different pedals and beaters, if you can.
You could try different heads.
I'd cut holes as a last resort, myself.
I have to say,16ths on a cocktail is hard!
I salute you!
I find i'm playing simpler bass parts when standing.
good luck!
You might want to try a few different pedals and beaters, if you can.
You could try different heads.
I'd cut holes as a last resort, myself.
I have to say,16ths on a cocktail is hard!
I salute you!
I find i'm playing simpler bass parts when standing.
good luck!
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Uncle Jimmy
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Tennessee
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Mike Strehlow
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:38 pm
Don't be too stubborn about changing your style. It doesn't take that long. I did when I started playing cocktail. I noticed the drum sounded better if I let the beater fall away. I've been playing heel up, beater held against the head rock n roll for 40 years. What I learned is a new technique and it didn't hurt my old.
I noticed my drum seemed choked too when I first put it together. Inevitably I changed the hardware on it. I moved a leg and added another because it wasn't stable with 3. So now I had some extra holes. They don't really show unless you look real close so I didn't try to repair them. It feels better now. If you do resort to holes try a few smaller ones on the backside where they won't show.
By the way you can play the top head as a tom with a hole in it. You might try that first.
Good luck.
I noticed my drum seemed choked too when I first put it together. Inevitably I changed the hardware on it. I moved a leg and added another because it wasn't stable with 3. So now I had some extra holes. They don't really show unless you look real close so I didn't try to repair them. It feels better now. If you do resort to holes try a few smaller ones on the backside where they won't show.
By the way you can play the top head as a tom with a hole in it. You might try that first.
Good luck.