Hi:
Can somone tell me if they have ever played a GP Cocktail Drum Kit? I have been trying to find a cocktail kit for a long time with no luck. I'd like to stay under 500$ (thats tough) and my options seem to only be the Peace Manhatten, Slingerland Expresso, and then a GP (groove precusion ithink). I want the expresso but cant find anyone you sells them, and I have heard that there is an annoying buz to the peace manhatten. Now it seems my only option is the GP. If anyone can tell how to buy an expresso or know of any other options I would be greatful. I dont mind used either I just am really anxious and want a cocktail after playing my freinds old leedy.
Thanks for any feed back, Im getting desperate
Jack
slingerland and GP
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mangorockfish
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:23 pm
- Location: arkansas
OK Jack,I don't do this for just anyone! Just messin' with ya. Try this guy. It may help and maybe not, but he deals in pretty much in cheap Japenese stuff like Zimgar, Apollo, etc., so maybe he knows something. Nice guy to talk on the phone to.
George is his name and here are his #s:
Store 866-970-0800
Cell 330-338-6035
Home 330-865-6981
Hope this helps.
Mangorockfish
George is his name and here are his #s:
Store 866-970-0800
Cell 330-338-6035
Home 330-865-6981
Hope this helps.
Mangorockfish
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Bruce (the K)
Hi Jack.
Just curious about the comment on the buzz associated with the Peace Manhattan. I've played one for a couple of years now and there's no buzz that I know of. There would be a tremendous buzz if you didn't put the rubber muffling pad on the top head of the kick drum to isolate it from the snare but as long as you do that, the snare works fine with no buzz or interference whatsoever.
I've never played the GP but if you use the top head as the snare (rather than a small side snare), you're going to be dealing with a certain amount of interference between the bottom head and the top head's snares. You also won't be getting the conventional snare sound that you get with the Manhattan (which is simply a traditional 5.5 x 14 wooden snare drum).
Also, keep in mind that you'd be playing while standing (similar to the Leedy) with the Manhattan or the GP whereas the Expresso is meant to be played sitting down and looks like it takes up a bit more room overall. (I'd say it's more of a "micro kit" than a "cocktail kit.")
Bruce (the K)
Just curious about the comment on the buzz associated with the Peace Manhattan. I've played one for a couple of years now and there's no buzz that I know of. There would be a tremendous buzz if you didn't put the rubber muffling pad on the top head of the kick drum to isolate it from the snare but as long as you do that, the snare works fine with no buzz or interference whatsoever.
I've never played the GP but if you use the top head as the snare (rather than a small side snare), you're going to be dealing with a certain amount of interference between the bottom head and the top head's snares. You also won't be getting the conventional snare sound that you get with the Manhattan (which is simply a traditional 5.5 x 14 wooden snare drum).
Also, keep in mind that you'd be playing while standing (similar to the Leedy) with the Manhattan or the GP whereas the Expresso is meant to be played sitting down and looks like it takes up a bit more room overall. (I'd say it's more of a "micro kit" than a "cocktail kit.")
Bruce (the K)
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jackachapman
peace cocktail
Hi Bruce (the K),
How do you like the peace kit? I thanik I will end up buying one very soon. Size is my biggest concern along with money. I would consider a small three or four piece set too but usually this runs in to more money. What about nounting the peace snare to the side to create four surfaces to hit? Thanks for any tips.
Jack
How do you like the peace kit? I thanik I will end up buying one very soon. Size is my biggest concern along with money. I would consider a small three or four piece set too but usually this runs in to more money. What about nounting the peace snare to the side to create four surfaces to hit? Thanks for any tips.
Jack
Bruce (the K) wrote:Hi Jack.
Just curious about the comment on the buzz associated with the Peace Manhattan. I've played one for a couple of years now and there's no buzz that I know of. There would be a tremendous buzz if you didn't put the rubber muffling pad on the top head of the kick drum to isolate it from the snare but as long as you do that, the snare works fine with no buzz or interference whatsoever.
I've never played the GP but if you use the top head as the snare (rather than a small side snare), you're going to be dealing with a certain amount of interference between the bottom head and the top head's snares. You also won't be getting the conventional snare sound that you get with the Manhattan (which is simply a traditional 5.5 x 14 wooden snare drum).
Also, keep in mind that you'd be playing while standing (similar to the Leedy) with the Manhattan or the GP whereas the Expresso is meant to be played sitting down and looks like it takes up a bit more room overall. (I'd say it's more of a "micro kit" than a "cocktail kit.")
Bruce (the K)
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Bruce (the K)
Hey Jack.
I've had my Manhattan for a couple of years now and I really like it. If you check the old posts, you'll find a lot of comments (by me and others) about changes that improve it in various ways.
Speaking of making it into a 4-piece, you should go to the main Cocktail Drum Lounge and click on LOOK, MODELS, and RODGERS. You'll find pictures of the Rodgers Parklane, which is somewhat similar to the Manhattan in having a separate snare, tom tom, and kick drum that function as a 4-piece.
I tried to modify mine by adding an additional Gibraltar clamp to the kick drum and the snare so I could suspend the snare from the side of the kick drum. The clamps are readily available, match the ones on the drum exactly, and aren't very expensive or difficult to mount. I tried to use the existing rod that holds the high hats along with a length of threaded stock to hold the snare to the side of the kick drum. I wasn't happy with where the snare, small tom, and high hats ended up. I think if you messed with using Z rods to hold the snare off to the side and more even with the top head of the kick drum, you could find a way to make a 4-piece set-up work.
I find that the 3-piece works well for the kind of semi-unplugged, vocals-heavy music that my band does so I haven't messed around with it recently. The nice thing is that the Manhattan is relatively cheap ($500 from Music 123) so I'm not afraid to mess with it. (Of course, I messed with the Yamaha Club Jordan that I had before the Manhattan so I guess the cost of the drum isn't an issue for me.) ;^)
Bruce (the K)
I've had my Manhattan for a couple of years now and I really like it. If you check the old posts, you'll find a lot of comments (by me and others) about changes that improve it in various ways.
Speaking of making it into a 4-piece, you should go to the main Cocktail Drum Lounge and click on LOOK, MODELS, and RODGERS. You'll find pictures of the Rodgers Parklane, which is somewhat similar to the Manhattan in having a separate snare, tom tom, and kick drum that function as a 4-piece.
I tried to modify mine by adding an additional Gibraltar clamp to the kick drum and the snare so I could suspend the snare from the side of the kick drum. The clamps are readily available, match the ones on the drum exactly, and aren't very expensive or difficult to mount. I tried to use the existing rod that holds the high hats along with a length of threaded stock to hold the snare to the side of the kick drum. I wasn't happy with where the snare, small tom, and high hats ended up. I think if you messed with using Z rods to hold the snare off to the side and more even with the top head of the kick drum, you could find a way to make a 4-piece set-up work.
I find that the 3-piece works well for the kind of semi-unplugged, vocals-heavy music that my band does so I haven't messed around with it recently. The nice thing is that the Manhattan is relatively cheap ($500 from Music 123) so I'm not afraid to mess with it. (Of course, I messed with the Yamaha Club Jordan that I had before the Manhattan so I guess the cost of the drum isn't an issue for me.) ;^)
Bruce (the K)
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fw
Hey!
George is indeed a cool guy--he has been on a two year quest to find a 14" Zimgar floor tom in tiger's eye pearl for me. If you're into cheap Japanese stuff, he is the authority.
If the goal is to stay under $500, you might consider building a set yourself. I forget who made it, but the loungecaster cocktail set on this sight was well under three-hundred, and when I ran the prices for building one, I came up with about $300 for an all maple main drum with a natural oiled finish. I've built a 10x8 tom before, and even with covering, I only spend about $80 (although I had the lugs and tension rods already). Pacific and Pulse make decent footplate-reinforced bass drum pedals for $30 that can be changed into cocktail pedals very easily. If you want the main drum to be a floor tom/bass instead of a snare/bass, you can get one of those pacific add on snares (10x6) for $90 on musiciansfriend.com. You can buy used slingerland or ludwig lugs cheap on ebay. If you like maple drums, I think building the set yourself is the way to go. Even the club jordan is birch and luan, and it costs a ton. The only new maple cocktail sets I know of are made by Phattie and DW, and they are gorgeous but expensive.
At the same time, the birch and Phillipine mahogany sets I've heard sound pretty good. I think if you put the time in with any cocktail set, eventually you'll get the tone you want.
Also, check ebay--vintage cocktail sets sell in the three-hundred range all the time.
Good luck!
Will
George is indeed a cool guy--he has been on a two year quest to find a 14" Zimgar floor tom in tiger's eye pearl for me. If you're into cheap Japanese stuff, he is the authority.
If the goal is to stay under $500, you might consider building a set yourself. I forget who made it, but the loungecaster cocktail set on this sight was well under three-hundred, and when I ran the prices for building one, I came up with about $300 for an all maple main drum with a natural oiled finish. I've built a 10x8 tom before, and even with covering, I only spend about $80 (although I had the lugs and tension rods already). Pacific and Pulse make decent footplate-reinforced bass drum pedals for $30 that can be changed into cocktail pedals very easily. If you want the main drum to be a floor tom/bass instead of a snare/bass, you can get one of those pacific add on snares (10x6) for $90 on musiciansfriend.com. You can buy used slingerland or ludwig lugs cheap on ebay. If you like maple drums, I think building the set yourself is the way to go. Even the club jordan is birch and luan, and it costs a ton. The only new maple cocktail sets I know of are made by Phattie and DW, and they are gorgeous but expensive.
At the same time, the birch and Phillipine mahogany sets I've heard sound pretty good. I think if you put the time in with any cocktail set, eventually you'll get the tone you want.
Also, check ebay--vintage cocktail sets sell in the three-hundred range all the time.
Good luck!
Will
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jackachapman
building a kit
fw,
I never thuoght of building my own. I didnt realize that all of the parts to build "drums" are readily available. I am a furniture builder by hobby so I think I can pull something like this off and then I will finally have something cool to talk about on this site. Not being an experienced drummer and never owing a kit myself I will need a lot of support. Can someone lead the way to some kind of drum recipie? I will be in rural Michigan all summer with a lot of time on my hands and this could be the perfect project. I would want to build a kit simalar to the Rodgers kit shown in the Models section of this site so a bass/floor tom with a snare and another tom hanging off the side. Two cymbol arms on the maind drum would be handy too. I plan to use a functioanl hi-hat so I will set this up independant of the main drum. I am a fast learner but now I dont know all of the terminology of the hardware pieces so if somone could hook me up with maybe a materials list or tell me how to get one I would be greatful. I'm ready.
JAck
I never thuoght of building my own. I didnt realize that all of the parts to build "drums" are readily available. I am a furniture builder by hobby so I think I can pull something like this off and then I will finally have something cool to talk about on this site. Not being an experienced drummer and never owing a kit myself I will need a lot of support. Can someone lead the way to some kind of drum recipie? I will be in rural Michigan all summer with a lot of time on my hands and this could be the perfect project. I would want to build a kit simalar to the Rodgers kit shown in the Models section of this site so a bass/floor tom with a snare and another tom hanging off the side. Two cymbol arms on the maind drum would be handy too. I plan to use a functioanl hi-hat so I will set this up independant of the main drum. I am a fast learner but now I dont know all of the terminology of the hardware pieces so if somone could hook me up with maybe a materials list or tell me how to get one I would be greatful. I'm ready.
JAck
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Bruce (the K)
-
mangorockfish
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:23 pm
- Location: arkansas
-
fw
I've used drummaker and they are great for parts. I've had some trouble with them in terms of plastic covering--it's really hard to get a sample swatch from them. I tried three times and then went with precisiondrum.com. They are absolutely amazing to work with for plastic wrap. But I've been very happy with drummaker.com in terms of parts, and they have just about everything you could ever need at good prices.
For your cocktail shell, you might check out:
http://www.aitwood.com/catalog_drum_shells.htm
They have a 16" wide by 24" tall 6ply maple Keller shell for $110 including bearing edges.
Drummaker.com has a 10" wide by 8" deep 6 ply maple Keller shell for $44 including edges.
Personally, I would just buy one of those Pacific 10" snare drums. They are $99, and you'd have a hard time making one for that cost.
As far as parts go, for the main drum, you'll want at least 8 lugs per side. The tom tom will need 6 for a total of 28 lugs. In addition to lugs, you'll need 28 tension rods, 28 washers, and the mounting screws and washers if the lugs don't come with them (drummaker.com sells them separately). You'll also need two 16" 8-hole hoops, two 10" 6-hole hoops (2.3mm chrome=cool and nicely priced at drummaker.com), three floor tom legs, and five floor tom leg mounts (three to mount floor tom legs and two to mount the tom to the main drum. Add an S-arm to mount the tom, a Pulse metal plate foot pedal from musiciansfriend.com for $30 (great pedal and easily converted) and heads (two 16"s and two 10"--I like coated ambassadors), and you have everything done except the cymbals and the finish. I'm sure you can do something amazing with the finish being a furniture builder. For hi hats, I like John's idea of using an S-arm with two U-clamps and some hi hat felts. It's cheap ($10) and works well. A Latin Percussion claw can mount your other cymbal (about $25).
It's looking like this project is going slightly over budget, but check this link out:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... eName=WDVW
This guy has 42 Slingerland lugs posted on Ebay for $30 right now--Ebay is a good way to get lugs cheap and cut costs.
Good luck!
Will
For your cocktail shell, you might check out:
http://www.aitwood.com/catalog_drum_shells.htm
They have a 16" wide by 24" tall 6ply maple Keller shell for $110 including bearing edges.
Drummaker.com has a 10" wide by 8" deep 6 ply maple Keller shell for $44 including edges.
Personally, I would just buy one of those Pacific 10" snare drums. They are $99, and you'd have a hard time making one for that cost.
As far as parts go, for the main drum, you'll want at least 8 lugs per side. The tom tom will need 6 for a total of 28 lugs. In addition to lugs, you'll need 28 tension rods, 28 washers, and the mounting screws and washers if the lugs don't come with them (drummaker.com sells them separately). You'll also need two 16" 8-hole hoops, two 10" 6-hole hoops (2.3mm chrome=cool and nicely priced at drummaker.com), three floor tom legs, and five floor tom leg mounts (three to mount floor tom legs and two to mount the tom to the main drum. Add an S-arm to mount the tom, a Pulse metal plate foot pedal from musiciansfriend.com for $30 (great pedal and easily converted) and heads (two 16"s and two 10"--I like coated ambassadors), and you have everything done except the cymbals and the finish. I'm sure you can do something amazing with the finish being a furniture builder. For hi hats, I like John's idea of using an S-arm with two U-clamps and some hi hat felts. It's cheap ($10) and works well. A Latin Percussion claw can mount your other cymbal (about $25).
It's looking like this project is going slightly over budget, but check this link out:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... eName=WDVW
This guy has 42 Slingerland lugs posted on Ebay for $30 right now--Ebay is a good way to get lugs cheap and cut costs.
Good luck!
Will
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jackachapman
building a cocktail ?'s
Greetings,
First of all thanks!
I am still in the planning stage and have some more initial questions...
1) I would like to base my kit on a bass/tom main drum. Is there any initerior work that is nessasary or can it be left "hollow" without baffles or something else I dont know about. Is it as simple (so to speak) as cutting a bearing edge, choosing a head, securing with a ring and hardware?
2) I have an old Slingerland snare (70's) approx. 5" x 14" that I would like to use to save money at first (I quess set up on a stand so I dont have to drill into it) but if I did deside to keep it does anyont think it would be too heavy to hang off the main drum?
3) Regarding the last question what can be recomended for mouting hardware that will suspend a haevy snare and that is adjustable to get it in just the right spot. The hardware on the Rogers and the Willouby look great to me. Could I use the same mount for the small tom?
4) I plan to use the demensions that are listed for the Rogers kit. How do you all feel about that? Sound?
I gotta take off in about two weeks so I have to start ordering parts soon.
Thanks again Jack
First of all thanks!
I am still in the planning stage and have some more initial questions...
1) I would like to base my kit on a bass/tom main drum. Is there any initerior work that is nessasary or can it be left "hollow" without baffles or something else I dont know about. Is it as simple (so to speak) as cutting a bearing edge, choosing a head, securing with a ring and hardware?
2) I have an old Slingerland snare (70's) approx. 5" x 14" that I would like to use to save money at first (I quess set up on a stand so I dont have to drill into it) but if I did deside to keep it does anyont think it would be too heavy to hang off the main drum?
3) Regarding the last question what can be recomended for mouting hardware that will suspend a haevy snare and that is adjustable to get it in just the right spot. The hardware on the Rogers and the Willouby look great to me. Could I use the same mount for the small tom?
4) I plan to use the demensions that are listed for the Rogers kit. How do you all feel about that? Sound?
I gotta take off in about two weeks so I have to start ordering parts soon.
Thanks again Jack
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fw
1)For a combination floor tom/bass, you don't need a baffle. I wouldn't use one at all. You also don't need to treat the inside of the shell. You don't even need to cut bearing edges--most suppliers will do that for you. It is as simple as lugs, rods, washers, hoops, and heads. You'll probably want a felt strip for the bottom head, too.
2)My fear with the snare drum wouldn't be the weight, but the width. I think a hard hit to the far edge could provide the leverage to mess up the main drum. But the Rogers looks like a 14" snare--does anyone know the dimensions?
3)Is the Rogers kit a 16x16" main drum? I tried playing a gig sitting down with a 16" floor tom/bass, a snare, hi hats, and a ride cymbal. I had a hard time getting a great sound from the drum. I followed the instructions for tuning on this page and found I could either get a solid, disco sounding bass drum and a gross sounding tom, or a nice sounding tom sound and an unfocused, thin bass sound. Also, if you want to play standing, you'd probably want more height on the drum. What would be really nice is a cone-shaped trixon shell, but alas. 16" tall was nice for playing seated, and the pedal reached the bottom head just fine.
One thing I can say about tuning a 16x16" bass/floor tom--you have to strike a balance between the top head and bottom. The more you mute the bass head, the better the bass sounds and the worse the tom head sounds. The more open the bass sound, the less passable the bass tone but the better the tom sound. If you don't muffle the bass head, there isn't much of a difference between the floor tom sound and the bass sound. A thin felt strip near the edge of the bottom head helps deaden the bass head, but not so much that it doesn't have enough resonance to enhance the top head. I like the tone of a cocktail bass with a floating foam disc, but the problem for your drum is that the disc in the "down" position completely mutes the bottom head, which ruins the tone of the top head.
The question I have is whether a deep, cocktail-sized shell with big vent holes in it would take some of the importance off of the bass head's resonance for more of a concert tom top head sound. With a 16x16" drum, I think you have a very narrow margin between what will pass on the bottom head and what will pass on the top. With my experiment on a 62' African Mahogany Slingerland drum with round edges and maple rings, I could get one good sound or the other, or something just barely passable from each head. The golden mean between bass and tom was about 70% of what I hoped for from the bass drum and 60% of what I hoped from from the tom.
I think I'd almost lean toward a drum 16" wide and 20" tall, possibly with four 3" vent holes about 4" from the bottom rim. But don't cut a shell til you know you need to.
Good luck! If you get it built and gig it in Michigan, let me know--I live in Lansing.
Will
2)My fear with the snare drum wouldn't be the weight, but the width. I think a hard hit to the far edge could provide the leverage to mess up the main drum. But the Rogers looks like a 14" snare--does anyone know the dimensions?
3)Is the Rogers kit a 16x16" main drum? I tried playing a gig sitting down with a 16" floor tom/bass, a snare, hi hats, and a ride cymbal. I had a hard time getting a great sound from the drum. I followed the instructions for tuning on this page and found I could either get a solid, disco sounding bass drum and a gross sounding tom, or a nice sounding tom sound and an unfocused, thin bass sound. Also, if you want to play standing, you'd probably want more height on the drum. What would be really nice is a cone-shaped trixon shell, but alas. 16" tall was nice for playing seated, and the pedal reached the bottom head just fine.
One thing I can say about tuning a 16x16" bass/floor tom--you have to strike a balance between the top head and bottom. The more you mute the bass head, the better the bass sounds and the worse the tom head sounds. The more open the bass sound, the less passable the bass tone but the better the tom sound. If you don't muffle the bass head, there isn't much of a difference between the floor tom sound and the bass sound. A thin felt strip near the edge of the bottom head helps deaden the bass head, but not so much that it doesn't have enough resonance to enhance the top head. I like the tone of a cocktail bass with a floating foam disc, but the problem for your drum is that the disc in the "down" position completely mutes the bottom head, which ruins the tone of the top head.
The question I have is whether a deep, cocktail-sized shell with big vent holes in it would take some of the importance off of the bass head's resonance for more of a concert tom top head sound. With a 16x16" drum, I think you have a very narrow margin between what will pass on the bottom head and what will pass on the top. With my experiment on a 62' African Mahogany Slingerland drum with round edges and maple rings, I could get one good sound or the other, or something just barely passable from each head. The golden mean between bass and tom was about 70% of what I hoped for from the bass drum and 60% of what I hoped from from the tom.
I think I'd almost lean toward a drum 16" wide and 20" tall, possibly with four 3" vent holes about 4" from the bottom rim. But don't cut a shell til you know you need to.
Good luck! If you get it built and gig it in Michigan, let me know--I live in Lansing.
Will