I have really been trying, but for the life of me, I cannot get a decent snare or bass drum sound out of my main drum. It is 14X24 unbaffled with a dual snare set-up. I have a coated ambassador top and a clear Evans hydraulic bottom with some styrofoam peanuts in it and a Remo Muffle Ring under the head and a clip-on external muffler. The bass drum still has that "boing" sound. The snare doesn't have ANY "crack" to it at all. It actually sounds like just what it is: a drum with some wires touching the bottom of the head. My 12" external snare drum and 10" tom sound Great, but that main drum is driving me crazy. It is a Phattie so it isn't a cheap drum. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Mangorockfish
Am I Expecting Too Much???
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mangorockfish
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:23 pm
- Location: arkansas
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fw
Is the "boing" sound the sound of a drum that doesn't sound like a bass, or snare rattle?
Either way, a baffle might help. I used something like Keith's--two discs of thin masonite cut with a jig saw filled with green craft foam. I might have put a disc of foam underneath the baffle, too. On top of the baffle, I took a cue from Peace and put a rubber Billy Gladstone vacuum snare practice pad. That completely killed any transference of sound through the baffle (in my case, the baffle was acting like a third head). If I got any snare rattle after that, it was through the shell, not the heads. It was really far less rattle than you'd get from having a bass drum near a snare drum--usually undetectable.
A baffle mght also help your bass tone. When I was experimenting with using a floor tom as both bass and floor tom, I found that a tight top head all but ruined my chances of getting a decent bottom head sound. The baffle would make the top head's tone no longer matter.
Also, do you have lug locks on your bass drum side? They really allow the drum to hold a low tuning. For what they are, the are ridiculously expensive, but you can still get a set for around $5.
I don't know about the foam peanuts--they might give you a dry type of dampening instead of a wet type. Try a big wad of cotton or fiber fill, or a disc of craft foam cut smaller than the interior of the shell. The goal is the same as with peanuts--they float in the air for an attack sound and muffle the high tones when they land.
As far as the head goes, I thought a powerstroke would work well on mine and was completely mistaken. I got sort of a boing sound like you described. On my 15" drum, a coated ambassador was the way to go--I was surprised, since I thought a thicker head would give me more bass. Instead, it gave me lots of high-end attack, or low-end mush. So you might already have the right head. A coated emperor might work, too. Pinstripe based heads are just weird to me--I don't feel like the heads vibrate correctly across the entire surface.
The last thing--building my set taught me I had to reconceive my ideas of good bass and snare sounds. Normally, I like a boomy, open bass drum sound with little to no muffling. On my cocktail set, I had to go with a tight, focused, punchy, "clicky" kind of sound--very disco. It reminded me of the way guys muffled their basses when I was in high school--tons of blankets and pillows, duct tape, and no front head, and a pinstripe on the batter head. I always hated that sound on drumsets--my love of bass drums came from orchestral bass drums--but on my cocktail, it worked. Plus, it was the only thing that worked, so if I wanted the bass drum to resemble a bass drum in any way, that's the sound I had to go with. It worked well, though, because the snare was very tight, nasal, and clipped. I found cranking the snare head did the trick, along with tightening the snare wires just before the point that the ends of the wires wanted to bend away from the head. I never got one great snare drum sound, but I did get a few okay sounds with about fifty different places to hit the head for interesting sounds. So what I lost in complexity and richness I gained in weirdness and variety. Since you have an auxilary snare anyway, that might not be a bad thing. Treat the top head like a timbale when the snares are off and tune the other tom low. Use the 12" snare for songs that need a traditional snare sound and use the main snare for funky stuff, effects, or brushes (which sound sweet on cocktail sets no matter what).
Either way, a baffle might help. I used something like Keith's--two discs of thin masonite cut with a jig saw filled with green craft foam. I might have put a disc of foam underneath the baffle, too. On top of the baffle, I took a cue from Peace and put a rubber Billy Gladstone vacuum snare practice pad. That completely killed any transference of sound through the baffle (in my case, the baffle was acting like a third head). If I got any snare rattle after that, it was through the shell, not the heads. It was really far less rattle than you'd get from having a bass drum near a snare drum--usually undetectable.
A baffle mght also help your bass tone. When I was experimenting with using a floor tom as both bass and floor tom, I found that a tight top head all but ruined my chances of getting a decent bottom head sound. The baffle would make the top head's tone no longer matter.
Also, do you have lug locks on your bass drum side? They really allow the drum to hold a low tuning. For what they are, the are ridiculously expensive, but you can still get a set for around $5.
I don't know about the foam peanuts--they might give you a dry type of dampening instead of a wet type. Try a big wad of cotton or fiber fill, or a disc of craft foam cut smaller than the interior of the shell. The goal is the same as with peanuts--they float in the air for an attack sound and muffle the high tones when they land.
As far as the head goes, I thought a powerstroke would work well on mine and was completely mistaken. I got sort of a boing sound like you described. On my 15" drum, a coated ambassador was the way to go--I was surprised, since I thought a thicker head would give me more bass. Instead, it gave me lots of high-end attack, or low-end mush. So you might already have the right head. A coated emperor might work, too. Pinstripe based heads are just weird to me--I don't feel like the heads vibrate correctly across the entire surface.
The last thing--building my set taught me I had to reconceive my ideas of good bass and snare sounds. Normally, I like a boomy, open bass drum sound with little to no muffling. On my cocktail set, I had to go with a tight, focused, punchy, "clicky" kind of sound--very disco. It reminded me of the way guys muffled their basses when I was in high school--tons of blankets and pillows, duct tape, and no front head, and a pinstripe on the batter head. I always hated that sound on drumsets--my love of bass drums came from orchestral bass drums--but on my cocktail, it worked. Plus, it was the only thing that worked, so if I wanted the bass drum to resemble a bass drum in any way, that's the sound I had to go with. It worked well, though, because the snare was very tight, nasal, and clipped. I found cranking the snare head did the trick, along with tightening the snare wires just before the point that the ends of the wires wanted to bend away from the head. I never got one great snare drum sound, but I did get a few okay sounds with about fifty different places to hit the head for interesting sounds. So what I lost in complexity and richness I gained in weirdness and variety. Since you have an auxilary snare anyway, that might not be a bad thing. Treat the top head like a timbale when the snares are off and tune the other tom low. Use the 12" snare for songs that need a traditional snare sound and use the main snare for funky stuff, effects, or brushes (which sound sweet on cocktail sets no matter what).
Hey Mango,
Sorry to hear you're having troubles. Here's some info from a previous post I made:
Here is my formula for getting a good kick sound from a 14" drum:
14" remo Power Stroke 3 for the bottom head
I prefer the coated head as it gives it a bit more muffling.
Tune it up until you just begin to have a tone. Use tape (2" wide) and paper towel in pieces around the edge of the drum head covering 1/3 to 1/2 of the circumference. This will add extra mass to the drum head and provide more muffling. Tune the head to your liking. GET LUG LOCKS! The little nylon things that slip over the head of the lugs. Otherwise they may come undone and fall off while you are traveling.
I also use a wooden beater to give a little more edge on the attack.
As far as the top. I use a Remo diplomat cranked up tight....
Hope this helps,
- John
Sorry to hear you're having troubles. Here's some info from a previous post I made:
Here is my formula for getting a good kick sound from a 14" drum:
14" remo Power Stroke 3 for the bottom head
I prefer the coated head as it gives it a bit more muffling.
Tune it up until you just begin to have a tone. Use tape (2" wide) and paper towel in pieces around the edge of the drum head covering 1/3 to 1/2 of the circumference. This will add extra mass to the drum head and provide more muffling. Tune the head to your liking. GET LUG LOCKS! The little nylon things that slip over the head of the lugs. Otherwise they may come undone and fall off while you are traveling.
I also use a wooden beater to give a little more edge on the attack.
As far as the top. I use a Remo diplomat cranked up tight....
Hope this helps,
- John
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mangorockfish
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:23 pm
- Location: arkansas
You know, I guess that part of the problem lies in the fact that I really don't know what I should expect form my main drum as far as bass drum sounds go.
When you muffle the main drum like was mentioned with the masonite discs. Where do you place them and how do you keep them where they are supposed to be. The placement and securing them is the only problem I think I would have as I think that I could figure out the actual baffle.
I really have too nice of a set to not be happy with.
Thanks, Mangorockfish
When you muffle the main drum like was mentioned with the masonite discs. Where do you place them and how do you keep them where they are supposed to be. The placement and securing them is the only problem I think I would have as I think that I could figure out the actual baffle.
I really have too nice of a set to not be happy with.
Thanks, Mangorockfish
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fw
Hey!
My masonite discs held themselves in place because I cut them badly--I traced 15" circles on the masonite, then cut them free-hand with a jigsaw. Since they weren't perfectly round, I was able to wedge them into place. That might be a good thing in your case, since drilling brackets into a nice cocktail drum might be scary. Check out Keith Cronin's page to see how it's done with brackets.
Will
My masonite discs held themselves in place because I cut them badly--I traced 15" circles on the masonite, then cut them free-hand with a jigsaw. Since they weren't perfectly round, I was able to wedge them into place. That might be a good thing in your case, since drilling brackets into a nice cocktail drum might be scary. Check out Keith Cronin's page to see how it's done with brackets.
Will
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palacki808
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 10:50 am
- Contact:
brackets
I'm going to agree with Will. I don't think you would want to drill holes in such a nice drum. If you look at Keith's page he uses 90 degree sheet metal brackets to secure the baffle. I assume you could use the screws from the lugs to hold these brackets in place.
I have something similiar myself. I think that it may work if you use them on all 8 lugs to reduce the stress on each one. Using only 3 or4 lugs may put too much stress on them depending on what you're using for the baffle and how much it weighs. Just an idea.
-Joe
I have something similiar myself. I think that it may work if you use them on all 8 lugs to reduce the stress on each one. Using only 3 or4 lugs may put too much stress on them depending on what you're using for the baffle and how much it weighs. Just an idea.
-Joe
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mangorockfish
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:23 pm
- Location: arkansas
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fw
Anywhere between 4-7" from the top should work well. You probably want the biggest bass chamber you can get while still giving the snare its own snare-sized chamber. I like the idea of the lug screws holding the baffle in place--you'd get security and you wouldn't have to deal with messing up your drum.
By the way, does your drum have reinforcement rings? If so, make sure you get thin enough masonite to flex it past the rings. Don't forget--a Billy Gladstone style rubber practice pad stapled or glued to the masonite is amazing!
Good luck.
Will
By the way, does your drum have reinforcement rings? If so, make sure you get thin enough masonite to flex it past the rings. Don't forget--a Billy Gladstone style rubber practice pad stapled or glued to the masonite is amazing!
Good luck.
Will