Hello there
are there any body here at Cocktail Drum Lounge who know how to cut in a cymbal to make it smaller ?????????
I have a paiste 2002 20" ride and I want a 15" ride for mine club jordan drumkit.
happy new year to all of you
mr. jottesen
How to make a 20" ride to a 15" ride ??
How to make a 20" ride to a 15" ride ??
Hello there
are there any body here at Cocktail Drum Lounge who know how to cut in a cymbal to make it smaller ?????????
I have a paiste 2002 20" ride and I want a 15" ride for mine club jordan drumkit.
happy new year to all of you
mr. jottesen
Cutting Down Ride Cymbals
Hello Mr. Jottesen,
Well, I would contact Paiste to see if they will do this kind of work at their factory.
A few years ago I had some old Zildjian 15" hi hats cut down to 14" by ZIldjian and they did it for free. All I had to do was send them in.
My questions is, are you sure you want to make such a drastic, irreversable change to such an expensive cymbal? I would be curious to hear how it sounds but I am not sure it will be the effect you desire. It will probably sound very much like a bell instead of a ride and have no crash capability. There are lots of other alternatives that you may want to check out first. You may even be able to order a custom made cymbal exactly to your design.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for experimentation if this is your goal. I just want to make sure that you are getting what you want out of the deal!
- John
Well, I would contact Paiste to see if they will do this kind of work at their factory.
A few years ago I had some old Zildjian 15" hi hats cut down to 14" by ZIldjian and they did it for free. All I had to do was send them in.
My questions is, are you sure you want to make such a drastic, irreversable change to such an expensive cymbal? I would be curious to hear how it sounds but I am not sure it will be the effect you desire. It will probably sound very much like a bell instead of a ride and have no crash capability. There are lots of other alternatives that you may want to check out first. You may even be able to order a custom made cymbal exactly to your design.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for experimentation if this is your goal. I just want to make sure that you are getting what you want out of the deal!
- John
-
fw
2002's are so heavy--it might still work as a ride. I agree with John, though--it won't crash well. Why 15" over 16" or 14" ? Do you want to pack it up on top of the drum? Just curious.
I get that there aren't very many small ride cymbals on the market. I don't really get why that is--I guess most of us are too conservative as drummers, since you can get any sort of 20" ride you can dream of but really have to struggle to find a ride under 18" or even a crash ride of any sort nowadays on anything except budget kits.
Bottom hi-hat cymbals often make nice small ride cymbals. Have you tried that yet?
Is the main thing with the 20" a size/weight thing in terms of mounting, or a sound thing? I had some luck taping up big cymbals to make them fit the sound of my cocktail set.
Good luck!
Will
I get that there aren't very many small ride cymbals on the market. I don't really get why that is--I guess most of us are too conservative as drummers, since you can get any sort of 20" ride you can dream of but really have to struggle to find a ride under 18" or even a crash ride of any sort nowadays on anything except budget kits.
Bottom hi-hat cymbals often make nice small ride cymbals. Have you tried that yet?
Is the main thing with the 20" a size/weight thing in terms of mounting, or a sound thing? I had some luck taping up big cymbals to make them fit the sound of my cocktail set.
Good luck!
Will
Thank you both for your interest and quick reply.The main thing I was looking for was a cymbal with a good and clear bell sound,
and fit in my cocktail drum case.
I am very inspired of the Melissa Errico video you have put on the media page
John I like your playing and sound very much,
But so far I used an old 16" 2002 crash with one rivert.
The problem is that the bell sound is very bad and not very clear ( I use hotrods sticks)
the sound was one big sizzzzzlsss you could?t hear the rhythm
Then I have this 20" ride i never used so I think let's give it try.
I used an elektric saw and have to make a little arangement, just cut in the cymbal nice and easy, then polish the cymbal?s edge.
The sound is very similar to a bottom hihat cymbal, very bell like as you said john and no good for crash.
I put some gaffa tape on the bottom of the cymbal so now it?s like a dry deep bell ride,
maybe I put some riverts in so i get a little more "space sustain"
I use it for cow bell patterns ( I am playing/rehearsing in the : Tito Puente?s drumming with the mambo king drumbook, very good ) and some kind of small funk/blues groover
etc.etc
Will what happens when you tapping a cymbal, can you make the sound dark
So that was the story about mine old paiste 20" ride wich became a 15" dry deep bell ride now
thank again for your reply and happy new year
mr. jottesen
15" ride
Wow, Mr. Jottesen, you are my new hero! You cut down your own 20 inch ride... That's so cool! Most people wouldn't have the nerve. I wish you had some pictures for me to post, it would run shivers down most spines.
I am glad you are enjoying it and finding interesting uses for it. As always, it's about being open minded, experimenting, and persisting until you make it work. You will find what you are looking for!
Thanks for the kind words about the Melissa Errico video. Just so you know, that cymbal is a 14" ZIljian A custom crash. I bought it second hand for about $40 and it has been amazing. I am scared of the day that it dies. I don't think that these cymbals are very consistant so I will probably never find the same cymbal again. Luckily there are thousands of other cymabls out theere to find!
The 14" A crash works great for me but I have had to work hard to play it just right. It really is a great crash cymbal, not really a ride at all. It also makes a fantastic top hi -hat cymbal. It just happens to work for me because I do not play that loud with my cocktail kit so I can play it as a ride but I just have to push it a small bit and it starts to wash out like a nice crash/ride. It also happens to have a very nice bell sound. I mostly use wood tip sticks for regular drum kit but because of this cymbal I use plastic tips on the cocktail drum. It helps the ride accent come out a bit more.
I know that there have been several discussion about cymbals here but since you are looking for a small cymbal, I would take Will's advice and try ever hi-hat cymbal you can find, top and bottom. There is such a variety out there I'm sure you can find something that wokrs. I have always been a fan of the Paiste Rude cymbals. I'll bet a 15" - 17" would work great with your cocktail kit!
Good luck and let us know how it all works out!
- John
I am glad you are enjoying it and finding interesting uses for it. As always, it's about being open minded, experimenting, and persisting until you make it work. You will find what you are looking for!
Thanks for the kind words about the Melissa Errico video. Just so you know, that cymbal is a 14" ZIljian A custom crash. I bought it second hand for about $40 and it has been amazing. I am scared of the day that it dies. I don't think that these cymbals are very consistant so I will probably never find the same cymbal again. Luckily there are thousands of other cymabls out theere to find!
The 14" A crash works great for me but I have had to work hard to play it just right. It really is a great crash cymbal, not really a ride at all. It also makes a fantastic top hi -hat cymbal. It just happens to work for me because I do not play that loud with my cocktail kit so I can play it as a ride but I just have to push it a small bit and it starts to wash out like a nice crash/ride. It also happens to have a very nice bell sound. I mostly use wood tip sticks for regular drum kit but because of this cymbal I use plastic tips on the cocktail drum. It helps the ride accent come out a bit more.
I know that there have been several discussion about cymbals here but since you are looking for a small cymbal, I would take Will's advice and try ever hi-hat cymbal you can find, top and bottom. There is such a variety out there I'm sure you can find something that wokrs. I have always been a fan of the Paiste Rude cymbals. I'll bet a 15" - 17" would work great with your cocktail kit!
Good luck and let us know how it all works out!
- John
-
fw
Thanks for the compliments!
You were right in guessing that taping cymbals kills their ability to crash. That's the main reason I went out and bought a 17" Zildjian Remix ride (they don't make the 17" anymore--just the 18" breakbeat). A taped crash let me get a very stick-heavy, dry, dark ride sound, but it was very unidimensional, like a sampled ride sound. That ride sound fit with my cocktail sound, which was very tight and quick--no sustain except on near the rim of the drum. But I figured a cymbal which was created to emulate sampled cymbal sounds might work better, and it did. I can ride that cymbal, crash it, play the bell, or throw a pro mark rattler on it and get whatever sounds I want. I also found it works as a quiet ride cymbal on my conventional set or a loud crash, kind of like a 2002.
I've noticed that out of all the cymbal companies, Paiste seems to be the only one that runs small rides in every day production. They just don't list their small rides, small crash rides, or small flat rides in American catalogs. Plus, I doubt many American distributors would risk carrying cymbals that they don't think would sell. But Paiste does make things like 15" rides still.
I'm still in love with my custom made Sabian HH 14". It's kind of in their duo style, which means the middle of the cymbal isn't lathed. The lathed part allows for a nice spread for crashing, the bell is more pronounced than my Remix ride's, and the ride sound has a focused stick sound with a washy spread, like an old 19" A Zildjian crash ride I have that I love but can't play on a cocktail set. the sound is very small unless I crash it, too, which makes it nice for cocktail sets. The crash is dark but very clear--like a very complex splash. On my conventional set right now, I've been using 12" hi hats and 4 multi-use cymbals--that Sabian 14", a 20" Harvey Mason flat ride with two rivets, a 20" A Zildjian medium ride, and a 21" Wuhan china that doubles as a really nice ride cymbal. The 14" blends very nicely as a ride or a bell, and the crash works even in jazz. The flat ride has a really nice gong-like crash, the ride is a workhorse, and the china has about 400 sounds I can pull out of it. So I've been happy with the combination. I don't know why I wrote all that, except that I really like my cymbals and the cocktail mentality of getting as many sounds out of as few cymbals as possible has spilled over into my conventional drumming in really pleasing ways.
Glad to hear chopping the cymbal worked! You are so brave!
I had a friend who used to take a belt sander to old crashes to remove some of the crashiness and make them more rideable. I guess it undid the effects of the lathing. He had some luck there. He would hammer his cymbals sometimes too--I thought that was psychotic, and he didn't have much luck there.
Good luck!
Will
You were right in guessing that taping cymbals kills their ability to crash. That's the main reason I went out and bought a 17" Zildjian Remix ride (they don't make the 17" anymore--just the 18" breakbeat). A taped crash let me get a very stick-heavy, dry, dark ride sound, but it was very unidimensional, like a sampled ride sound. That ride sound fit with my cocktail sound, which was very tight and quick--no sustain except on near the rim of the drum. But I figured a cymbal which was created to emulate sampled cymbal sounds might work better, and it did. I can ride that cymbal, crash it, play the bell, or throw a pro mark rattler on it and get whatever sounds I want. I also found it works as a quiet ride cymbal on my conventional set or a loud crash, kind of like a 2002.
I've noticed that out of all the cymbal companies, Paiste seems to be the only one that runs small rides in every day production. They just don't list their small rides, small crash rides, or small flat rides in American catalogs. Plus, I doubt many American distributors would risk carrying cymbals that they don't think would sell. But Paiste does make things like 15" rides still.
I'm still in love with my custom made Sabian HH 14". It's kind of in their duo style, which means the middle of the cymbal isn't lathed. The lathed part allows for a nice spread for crashing, the bell is more pronounced than my Remix ride's, and the ride sound has a focused stick sound with a washy spread, like an old 19" A Zildjian crash ride I have that I love but can't play on a cocktail set. the sound is very small unless I crash it, too, which makes it nice for cocktail sets. The crash is dark but very clear--like a very complex splash. On my conventional set right now, I've been using 12" hi hats and 4 multi-use cymbals--that Sabian 14", a 20" Harvey Mason flat ride with two rivets, a 20" A Zildjian medium ride, and a 21" Wuhan china that doubles as a really nice ride cymbal. The 14" blends very nicely as a ride or a bell, and the crash works even in jazz. The flat ride has a really nice gong-like crash, the ride is a workhorse, and the china has about 400 sounds I can pull out of it. So I've been happy with the combination. I don't know why I wrote all that, except that I really like my cymbals and the cocktail mentality of getting as many sounds out of as few cymbals as possible has spilled over into my conventional drumming in really pleasing ways.
Glad to hear chopping the cymbal worked! You are so brave!
I had a friend who used to take a belt sander to old crashes to remove some of the crashiness and make them more rideable. I guess it undid the effects of the lathing. He had some luck there. He would hammer his cymbals sometimes too--I thought that was psychotic, and he didn't have much luck there.
Good luck!
Will
Thanks again
Hey again
I would be happy to send you some pictures, and share my big passion,
DRUMS AND HOW TO PLAY/TREAT THEM RIGHT !!!
but how do I do it ??
In the cocktail drum lounge there are a "LEARN" section with a supgroup named
"PLAYING" what is your idea ? video clips, rhythm notes, audio .......... ???
It could be funny to see or hear how orther cocktail drummers play there
drums and add .perc. and learn some funny and cool COCKTAIL DRUMS GROOVES
HAVE A NICE DAY
Mr. Jottesen
Pics
Hello again Mr. Jottesen,
You can always send pictures to me at:
john at cocktaildrum dot com (just change the at and the dot)
If you have pictures of an entire process and want to write up a description of the process to go along with the pictures, I can make a page about it.
As far as hearing cocktail drummers, that is what the media section has. Perhaps I need to make just an audio section for snippets of grooves like Dinkus has on his pages.
The playing section is intended for tips, tricks, and material for playing the Cocktail Drum. Something more on the instructional side of things like music lessons. I have been meening to write up some patterns that work particularly well on the Cocktail Drum but time is not on my side (sad for adrummer )
- John
You can always send pictures to me at:
john at cocktaildrum dot com (just change the at and the dot)
If you have pictures of an entire process and want to write up a description of the process to go along with the pictures, I can make a page about it.
As far as hearing cocktail drummers, that is what the media section has. Perhaps I need to make just an audio section for snippets of grooves like Dinkus has on his pages.
The playing section is intended for tips, tricks, and material for playing the Cocktail Drum. Something more on the instructional side of things like music lessons. I have been meening to write up some patterns that work particularly well on the Cocktail Drum but time is not on my side (sad for adrummer
)- John
-
Randy Rudolph
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 9:47 am