I did a thread on using the main drum as a snare back in Nov. and last night, went back and reread it and tried what was suggested and guess what? It worked. DUH!!!!
I cranked the top head down pretty tight and adjusted the snares, dual snare setup, and gave it a whack and it sounded like a real snare drum. Maybe not exactly, but close and a lot moreso than ever before. The bottom head even sounds more like a bass drum now also.
My problem was that, I have a 10" tom and a side snare, and I wanted the main drum to sound like a nice deep 14" tom and then when I turned the snares on to use it as a snare for a larger brush playing surface, it would sound like a snare.. Well, it doesn't work like that. You can have one or the other, but not both at the same time. Anyway, I haven't figured out how yet.
With all this said, I want to give a special thanks to Dinkus, Joe/palacki808, Will/fw , and John/jmettam for your advice and help.
My enthusiasm for the Cocktail Kit is renewed.
Tuning
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fw
Thanks!
You just gave me a demented idea for making a main drum work as both a floor tom and a snare.
You know how on some old-fashioned dial-up mufflers you can overturn the knob so that instead of just firmly resting against the top head, it actually pushes so hard against the top head that it makes a bulge?
What if you had an internal muffler that you custom bent so that the muffler arm pushed the top head up 1/2" to 1", maybe at the midpoint between the center of the head and the rim? The snare wires might need to be re-angled to accomodate a lumpy top head, but I bet you could get a significant pitch bend with the right modification, so that a mid-pitched floor tom sound could be a mid-low pitched snare. I can't imagine you'd get a beautiful snare sound, but you might get another set of options between the cocktail drum being either a floor tom or a snare.
Here's probably an even better approach. Do you remember those late 80's tom mufflers that clamped to the rim of the drum and rested on the top head? You'd hit the drum, the muffler would bounce off for an open sound, and then the muffler would fall back onto the head to cut ring. What if one of those were modified or a similar device were engineered that would allow the muffling pad to push down on the head to the point that it bent the pitch? Then you wouldn't need to worry about rebending the snare wires to point up into a head that bulges up--the head would bulge down in the direction of the snares. At worst, you'd just need to either shorten the snare wires or loosen them so that the tips of the snares still make contact with the head. If you put the pressure on the head in the right spot, the impact on the snares would be minimal, anyway.
I like this idea because you can test it really easily. Just tune your cocktail set's top head to a floor tom tuning you like, then turn on your snares and push your thumb really hard into the top head until you reach the pitch you want. Hit the drum with a stick, and find out if my idea is stupid or not!
On the other hand, maybe it's enough that we already have to find a compromise between the bass sound and the snare sound--things might get really messy if the snare sound now also has to function as a floor tom--a three way compromise rather than a two-way. Still, you've got the other snare, so the snare sound doesn't have to be ideal all the time.
I'm starting to think of some really ugly solutions. I'd better quit while I'm ahead.
Will
You just gave me a demented idea for making a main drum work as both a floor tom and a snare.
You know how on some old-fashioned dial-up mufflers you can overturn the knob so that instead of just firmly resting against the top head, it actually pushes so hard against the top head that it makes a bulge?
What if you had an internal muffler that you custom bent so that the muffler arm pushed the top head up 1/2" to 1", maybe at the midpoint between the center of the head and the rim? The snare wires might need to be re-angled to accomodate a lumpy top head, but I bet you could get a significant pitch bend with the right modification, so that a mid-pitched floor tom sound could be a mid-low pitched snare. I can't imagine you'd get a beautiful snare sound, but you might get another set of options between the cocktail drum being either a floor tom or a snare.
Here's probably an even better approach. Do you remember those late 80's tom mufflers that clamped to the rim of the drum and rested on the top head? You'd hit the drum, the muffler would bounce off for an open sound, and then the muffler would fall back onto the head to cut ring. What if one of those were modified or a similar device were engineered that would allow the muffling pad to push down on the head to the point that it bent the pitch? Then you wouldn't need to worry about rebending the snare wires to point up into a head that bulges up--the head would bulge down in the direction of the snares. At worst, you'd just need to either shorten the snare wires or loosen them so that the tips of the snares still make contact with the head. If you put the pressure on the head in the right spot, the impact on the snares would be minimal, anyway.
I like this idea because you can test it really easily. Just tune your cocktail set's top head to a floor tom tuning you like, then turn on your snares and push your thumb really hard into the top head until you reach the pitch you want. Hit the drum with a stick, and find out if my idea is stupid or not!
On the other hand, maybe it's enough that we already have to find a compromise between the bass sound and the snare sound--things might get really messy if the snare sound now also has to function as a floor tom--a three way compromise rather than a two-way. Still, you've got the other snare, so the snare sound doesn't have to be ideal all the time.
I'm starting to think of some really ugly solutions. I'd better quit while I'm ahead.
Will
Tuning
Nice Will!
And thanks Mango!
How about the old timp-tom idea? Anyone remember the Yamaha de-tuning floor tom? I've been looking for one for years. Had a timpani mechanism inside and a pedal to tune while you played. Only problem was, it didn't lock in position. Remo made timp roto-toms for a while, I believe those would hold their pitch!
Now, if we could work that in with a quick release snare/muffler and..... uh, oh. We're in trouble now!
- John
And thanks Mango!
How about the old timp-tom idea? Anyone remember the Yamaha de-tuning floor tom? I've been looking for one for years. Had a timpani mechanism inside and a pedal to tune while you played. Only problem was, it didn't lock in position. Remo made timp roto-toms for a while, I believe those would hold their pitch!
Now, if we could work that in with a quick release snare/muffler and..... uh, oh. We're in trouble now!
- John
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mangorockfish
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palacki808
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tuning
Its good to hear that you finally found the sound you are looking for.
-Joe
-Joe