Ever been stuck having to play a house drumset?
The Hard Rock Cafe in Pittburgh always has several bands in a single evening. The rule there is all the drummers share a single drumset to keep set-up time to a minimum between bands.
It's not that bad other than the fact remains the Hard Rock Cafe is the most fun gig we do. I still try to keep the right attitude playing with as much energy as possible and continuing to keep the time as tight as possible. About halfway through the gig I start thinking how much more comfortable I would be standing behind my little cocktail set.
I know I'm sounding like a cry baby about the whole thing and I should be happy to be playing at the hard rock, but it just isn't the same when I sit down anymore.
Any of you guys run into this?
-Joe
make due without the cocktail drum
-
palacki808
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 10:50 am
- Contact:
I totally understand Joe!
I have done a few gigs where I used the house drums out of convenience and I am always amazed at how uncomfortable I suddenly am on a full kit if it's a project that I always play Cocktail Drum with. It's wierd when you realize just how much you adapt and personalize your playing on a Cocktail Kit.
Even in a situation where eveyone shares a kit, I have never had a soundman complain about me using the Cocktail. It is easy to get on and off the stage and very easy to mic up. You should try warning them beforehand and just make sure that they understand that you will not need to move the house kit and you only need 2-3 mics. Especially if you have a small band, you will use the same number of mics as a slightly larger group.
I would be amazed if anyone gave you a hard time about it.
- John
I have done a few gigs where I used the house drums out of convenience and I am always amazed at how uncomfortable I suddenly am on a full kit if it's a project that I always play Cocktail Drum with. It's wierd when you realize just how much you adapt and personalize your playing on a Cocktail Kit.
Even in a situation where eveyone shares a kit, I have never had a soundman complain about me using the Cocktail. It is easy to get on and off the stage and very easy to mic up. You should try warning them beforehand and just make sure that they understand that you will not need to move the house kit and you only need 2-3 mics. Especially if you have a small band, you will use the same number of mics as a slightly larger group.
I would be amazed if anyone gave you a hard time about it.
- John
-
palacki808
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 10:50 am
- Contact:
without a cocktail drum
I normally do just ask the soundman for an extra channel and I simply run the sound myself. I have an eight channel mixer and a direct box so I only take up one channel on the main sound system.
Most places are very cool with this, but for some reason the Hard Rock doesn't want me doing this. I asked the first time we played there and they simply told me that its thier policy and they stick to it. Which sucks, but I have used a house set before and there's no reason to push the issue regardless of comfort because I know I can get the job done with the tools provided.
Getting back to what you said about how comfortable you are with your cocktail drum: the modern drumset is the most personal of all instruments in my opinion. No two drummers are alike, nor are their drumkits. Every drummer is different and comfortable with different instruments. I think this forum is obviously proof of that when you look at the last post Mango put up asking what drums people use with their cocktail set.
-Joe
Most places are very cool with this, but for some reason the Hard Rock doesn't want me doing this. I asked the first time we played there and they simply told me that its thier policy and they stick to it. Which sucks, but I have used a house set before and there's no reason to push the issue regardless of comfort because I know I can get the job done with the tools provided.
Getting back to what you said about how comfortable you are with your cocktail drum: the modern drumset is the most personal of all instruments in my opinion. No two drummers are alike, nor are their drumkits. Every drummer is different and comfortable with different instruments. I think this forum is obviously proof of that when you look at the last post Mango put up asking what drums people use with their cocktail set.
-Joe
Not to belabor the point, but the Hard Rocks comment about poilicy, especially with your 1 channel setup is ridiculous!
You take up as much space (and channels) as an upright bass player. Would they tell a bass player, sorry, you have to play an electric, club policy? NO! Or force a keyboardist to not use their axe with all of their customized sounds in it?
I agree that moving and remicing a full drum kit is a pain when you are trying to stay on a tight schedule but you are not creating any more problem than any other instrument.
I would never play a gig with Cocktail Amgst, on a regular drum kit. It just wouldn't work and it would completely destroy the level of our show.
Rrrrrrrrrr! Clubs!
You take up as much space (and channels) as an upright bass player. Would they tell a bass player, sorry, you have to play an electric, club policy? NO! Or force a keyboardist to not use their axe with all of their customized sounds in it?
I agree that moving and remicing a full drum kit is a pain when you are trying to stay on a tight schedule but you are not creating any more problem than any other instrument.
I would never play a gig with Cocktail Amgst, on a regular drum kit. It just wouldn't work and it would completely destroy the level of our show.
Rrrrrrrrrr! Clubs!
-
fw
Was the cocktail set just such an alien concept to the soundguy that he thought you were trying to get away with bringing your own traps instead of a cocktail set? Maybe you should carry a photograph of your kit with you!
I hate it when the shared drumset has duct-taped, pinstriped power toms, a stuffed bass drum, and either really heavy cymbals or scimitars.
I agree with you guys about switching up equipment--our technique and the sounds we come up with in our heads don't translate to all drums, and every drumset has its own way it wants to be played. I think in the fifties drumsets were much more homogenous, so the worst you'd have to deal with was playing 13/16/22 instead of 12/14/20. Every once in a while you might have an 18 or 24" bass to deal with, but they were all 14" depths.
It's good to know that back then, the cocktail players still could have screwed everyone who wanted to sit in on our drums. Muahahahahaha.
Also, I wonder what it was like either sitting in on Chico Hamilton's set or being Chico Hamilton on, say, Gene Krupa's kit. Single-headed toms cranked up like timbales in the early 50's? Totally nuts.
Does the Hard Rock record or videotape every show? Maybe they don't want to deal with getting a good tape sound through the mics. Of course, they aren't making the guitarists play house amps, I'm sure.
It seems like drummers still don't get enough respect. What are more "dime a dozen"--drummers or guitar players?
Will
I hate it when the shared drumset has duct-taped, pinstriped power toms, a stuffed bass drum, and either really heavy cymbals or scimitars.
I agree with you guys about switching up equipment--our technique and the sounds we come up with in our heads don't translate to all drums, and every drumset has its own way it wants to be played. I think in the fifties drumsets were much more homogenous, so the worst you'd have to deal with was playing 13/16/22 instead of 12/14/20. Every once in a while you might have an 18 or 24" bass to deal with, but they were all 14" depths.
It's good to know that back then, the cocktail players still could have screwed everyone who wanted to sit in on our drums. Muahahahahaha.
Also, I wonder what it was like either sitting in on Chico Hamilton's set or being Chico Hamilton on, say, Gene Krupa's kit. Single-headed toms cranked up like timbales in the early 50's? Totally nuts.
Does the Hard Rock record or videotape every show? Maybe they don't want to deal with getting a good tape sound through the mics. Of course, they aren't making the guitarists play house amps, I'm sure.
It seems like drummers still don't get enough respect. What are more "dime a dozen"--drummers or guitar players?
Will
-
palacki808
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 10:50 am
- Contact:
comments
I'm glad all my comments were understood and taken in context. I too hate using a crappy (for lack of a curse word) drumset. Even though the Hard Rock always has a good house set which is discussed several weeks in advance to help accomodate the drummer's needs, it still doens't help those of us using special equipment.
Most places don't have a problem with you using your own cymbals or pedal because no new sound checks are needed and it takes a very small amount of time to change that. I think the reason the hard rock frowns on my setup is they don't like the idea of the soundman not having control of the knobs on my board. Which I can understand, it still doesn't excuse the fact that the drummers are the only ones asked to use equipment and instruments other than their own.
Regradless I still try to keep the same attitude. I practice sitting down before the gig when I know I must use a standard set. I know the music and I'm still going to kick ass just like the rest of my band. Going into the bad situation of using a house set with this attitude can really help you overcome the problem of playing a crappy set or the problem of lacking your cocktail drum.
Maybe next time we play the hard rock cafe I'll just have to find other bands where the drummers use a cocktail drums as well... any takers?
Most places don't have a problem with you using your own cymbals or pedal because no new sound checks are needed and it takes a very small amount of time to change that. I think the reason the hard rock frowns on my setup is they don't like the idea of the soundman not having control of the knobs on my board. Which I can understand, it still doesn't excuse the fact that the drummers are the only ones asked to use equipment and instruments other than their own.
Regradless I still try to keep the same attitude. I practice sitting down before the gig when I know I must use a standard set. I know the music and I'm still going to kick ass just like the rest of my band. Going into the bad situation of using a house set with this attitude can really help you overcome the problem of playing a crappy set or the problem of lacking your cocktail drum.
Maybe next time we play the hard rock cafe I'll just have to find other bands where the drummers use a cocktail drums as well... any takers?
-
palacki808
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 10:50 am
- Contact:
without my cocktail drum
Well, we played great at at the hard rock cafe and I was thinking most of the night that I could have done better with my cocktail drum. The second band's drummer is just awesome. He plays so good it makes me want to throw the sticks away and quit, of course he just amazed me with his playing as he always does.
The last drummer.... well, I'm glad I didn't bring my cocktail drum because the drummer in the last band had a few beers and hit a little harder than usual. He broke the snare head as well as the mounted tom head on my yamaha hipgig set.
He changed snares halfway through the set, so I knew something happened. He hit hard enough that the snare head had been pulled out of the rim (something I have never seen before). It wasn't until after he was done and I started packing up that I noticed the tom head had been popped as well.
Thank goodness he was not sitting in on my cocktail drum. I would have been quite upset. You all know how difficult it is to get your hands on a cocktail drum. I understand that drums are made to be hit, but with something like a cocktail drum I would have been very upset just knowing how hard he was hitting even if the drum or hardware itself wasn't damaged.
-Joe
The last drummer.... well, I'm glad I didn't bring my cocktail drum because the drummer in the last band had a few beers and hit a little harder than usual. He broke the snare head as well as the mounted tom head on my yamaha hipgig set.
He changed snares halfway through the set, so I knew something happened. He hit hard enough that the snare head had been pulled out of the rim (something I have never seen before). It wasn't until after he was done and I started packing up that I noticed the tom head had been popped as well.
Thank goodness he was not sitting in on my cocktail drum. I would have been quite upset. You all know how difficult it is to get your hands on a cocktail drum. I understand that drums are made to be hit, but with something like a cocktail drum I would have been very upset just knowing how hard he was hitting even if the drum or hardware itself wasn't damaged.
-Joe
-
Guest
YOU had to supply the house kit?!?!?!? I totally missed that in the earlier posts. What jerks! "You have to donate your set to the cause, but not the one you want to play." Great. I thought you had to play on the house set.
Did the drummer who smacked your heads in give you cash for new ones? Sorry to hear about that--you talked about how hard to come by cocktail sets are, but hipgig kits are a little difficult to find and they are very expensive for what they are. I love the way they sound and had a blast playing one at Guitar Center, but compared to other birch/luan sets, they are very expensive. I wouldn't want someone bashing away on mine if I had one.
I remember one gig with my old soul band in college--I wasn't drunk or anything, but I was super fired up. I hadn't broken a stick since high school, but that night I broke three. The crazy part, though, is they weren't cracks in the shank that splintered off--I broke three sticks clean through at the part where the stick hits the rim during a rim shot--no diagonal break...the break was perpindicular to the stick. I haven't broken a stick since that night ten years ago. Crazy.
Did the drummer who smacked your heads in give you cash for new ones? Sorry to hear about that--you talked about how hard to come by cocktail sets are, but hipgig kits are a little difficult to find and they are very expensive for what they are. I love the way they sound and had a blast playing one at Guitar Center, but compared to other birch/luan sets, they are very expensive. I wouldn't want someone bashing away on mine if I had one.
I remember one gig with my old soul band in college--I wasn't drunk or anything, but I was super fired up. I hadn't broken a stick since high school, but that night I broke three. The crazy part, though, is they weren't cracks in the shank that splintered off--I broke three sticks clean through at the part where the stick hits the rim during a rim shot--no diagonal break...the break was perpindicular to the stick. I haven't broken a stick since that night ten years ago. Crazy.
-
palacki808
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 10:50 am
- Contact:
house set
I never mentioned the fact that one of us had to supply the drumset. It was an unnecessary deetail because the point of the post wasn't to complain about the venue, it was simply a statement about how uncomfortable you can be playing without your cocktail drum.
Grnated hipgig kits aren't very common, but they are ceratinly easier to get than a cocktail drum. The reasons for using my set were:
- One drummer's set consisted of a bass, snare, cymbal and hihats. I need at least one tom, preferrably two. The other drummer's set is not exactly kept in the best condition, not to mention is huge and I would have trouble reaching it.
- Since both of the other drummers agreed they would be comfortable with playing on my hipgig I thought it was the best course of action. I did what i needed to do to put on the best show I could with my band and everyone else involved.
Once before I had equipment broken by a drummer who wanted to sit in. I didn't know him and I should have said "no", but I learned my lesson. I knew these two drummers and this was quite a surprise to me that anything was broken.
I have played on house sets and other drummer's sets on numerous occasions in the past and its not a great situation, but you have to make the best of it. Its a common occurence, but its alot more difficult for cocktail drummers because our equipment isn't quite as "standard" as others.
Grnated hipgig kits aren't very common, but they are ceratinly easier to get than a cocktail drum. The reasons for using my set were:
- One drummer's set consisted of a bass, snare, cymbal and hihats. I need at least one tom, preferrably two. The other drummer's set is not exactly kept in the best condition, not to mention is huge and I would have trouble reaching it.
- Since both of the other drummers agreed they would be comfortable with playing on my hipgig I thought it was the best course of action. I did what i needed to do to put on the best show I could with my band and everyone else involved.
Once before I had equipment broken by a drummer who wanted to sit in. I didn't know him and I should have said "no", but I learned my lesson. I knew these two drummers and this was quite a surprise to me that anything was broken.
I have played on house sets and other drummer's sets on numerous occasions in the past and its not a great situation, but you have to make the best of it. Its a common occurence, but its alot more difficult for cocktail drummers because our equipment isn't quite as "standard" as others.
Broken Heads
I would expect that the guy who broke heads also tuned up the drums pretty tight for them to actually pull from the hoop.
Ah, well lessons learned I expect. Sounds like you got the bad end of the deal. Next time you can make someone else supply the kit AND insist on usingyour cocktail kit set up in front on stage. Give them your 1-2 outputs and be done with the entire headache!
Just my opinion. You do have a say in these things. And now you should have much more leverage considering your broken gear.
- John
Ah, well lessons learned I expect. Sounds like you got the bad end of the deal. Next time you can make someone else supply the kit AND insist on usingyour cocktail kit set up in front on stage. Give them your 1-2 outputs and be done with the entire headache!
Just my opinion. You do have a say in these things. And now you should have much more leverage considering your broken gear.
- John
-
palacki808
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 10:50 am
- Contact:
You're right John, it is a lesson learned. I most certainly will be using that for leverage next time we play there.
Our summer is getting to the point where we are almost booked solid already and the next Hard Rock Cafe show is being planned for Aug 11th. When we get a definite answer from everyone that it is a go I will talk to someone about using two sets on stage. My cocktail drum and the other drummer's set. That shouldn't be difficult because the other drummer will only be needing two mics for his set.
To my knowledge, the band who's drummer broke my heads was not asked back. I didn't say anything to the hard rock's manager about the heads. Didn't want my band to look bad or whiney about the situation. Never complain (unless its an extremely serious problem) late at night when the bar is letting out and the waitresses are cleaning up because people are tired and can be irritable.
I guess the point I'm getting to is it sucks, but if you try to look past not having your cocktail drum and concentrate on playing your best you can still put on a good show. Good enough to be asked to come back and play again. We're all still drummers, even without our cocktail sets. If we can play cocktail drums and sound good, we can most certainly play standard sets and kick ass.
-Joe
p.s. Most of us here play music as a hobby, not a career. Its a fun thing for our spare time and the last thing we want to think about is a bad gig. I know this subject really sucks, thanks to everyone for discussing it. I hope you younger drummers can learn from my mistake and steer clear of such a situation.
Our summer is getting to the point where we are almost booked solid already and the next Hard Rock Cafe show is being planned for Aug 11th. When we get a definite answer from everyone that it is a go I will talk to someone about using two sets on stage. My cocktail drum and the other drummer's set. That shouldn't be difficult because the other drummer will only be needing two mics for his set.
To my knowledge, the band who's drummer broke my heads was not asked back. I didn't say anything to the hard rock's manager about the heads. Didn't want my band to look bad or whiney about the situation. Never complain (unless its an extremely serious problem) late at night when the bar is letting out and the waitresses are cleaning up because people are tired and can be irritable.
I guess the point I'm getting to is it sucks, but if you try to look past not having your cocktail drum and concentrate on playing your best you can still put on a good show. Good enough to be asked to come back and play again. We're all still drummers, even without our cocktail sets. If we can play cocktail drums and sound good, we can most certainly play standard sets and kick ass.
-Joe
p.s. Most of us here play music as a hobby, not a career. Its a fun thing for our spare time and the last thing we want to think about is a bad gig. I know this subject really sucks, thanks to everyone for discussing it. I hope you younger drummers can learn from my mistake and steer clear of such a situation.