Hey!
I know this isn't a cocktail related post, but I figured since you guys are into niche drums, you might be able to help.
I'm starting an 80's new wave cover/concept band, and I want to have the most appropriate drumset I can afford by not really buying much gear.
I either own, can borrow, or buy all of the following gear---just wondering what you think:
1)22x16" Olympic bass, black, single-headed and muffled
2)10,12,13,14" Premier concert toms, black--detuned with pinstripes
3)16" Olympic floor tom, black
3)6.5"x14" Ludwig super sensitive--detuned and muffled
4)two simmons pads with an SDS 200 brain
5)A syndrum-like drum synth my friend built triggered by a homemade pad
6)a Boss handclap pedal/trigger
7)roto toms
8)12" hats, 14" crash, 17" crash, 14" china, 20" china, no ride
9)an englehart ribbon crasher as a substitute for spoxe hi hats.
I'm trying to really over-do the 80'sness of the set--otherwise, I'd just use my regular set. Still, I'm not sure I want to lug around all that gear. Would it be better to cut the concert toms or the roto toms? Or should I just go for it all? Is there anything inexpensive and totally 80's I'm forgetting? Remember--new wave, not metal. I can't afford octabons or a set of colorsound cymbals, but anything cheap you can think of, or any really 1980's mods you can think of, let me know.
Thanks!
Will
80's New Wave drums
Interesting post, Will.
I'll toss some ideas in the ring, although it might be helpful to others (who are old enough to have experienced it) what music you'll be covering. Also whether the project is to respectfully recreate 80s new wave, do a tonge in cheek/lampoon of the genre, or create a serious modern-retro blend. Frankly any of these approaches could be cool or fun.
Another factor to consider is whether you're giving a nod to the British/Euro artists and or the US artists of that time. The drumming approach and sounds were sometimes different as night and day.
80s new wave drumming means a few things to me: Simmons drums (series V or VII), triggered Farilight samples, and super low dead snare drums. Oh yes, and the electro or sampled claps. High on that list is Simmons drums, though. The single headed toms/roto toms would seem less-characteristic than the electronics to me when thinking of new wave.
All this might mean triggers, so one approach would be to pick up an Alesis box (D4 or similar) and trigger a 5 piece kit. Use the triggers to fire the Roland-esque samples in the box and if possible, pick up a used Akai sampler for the Simmons samples you may not have available from your 2 pads. The simmons pads are visually recognizable to that genre moreso than the drums.
The snare needs to be ass-deep and slow speaking for manh 80s songs, but you'll probably want a contrast to it as well. So it would help to add a hi-tuned snare (ala Stew Copeland) for songs that needed a crackin ahead-of-the beat backbeat.
In the 80s I usually opted out of a ride cymbal, so I agree with that. Having an icebell or similar is a good add if you need to ride (annoyingly!). And some stacked or broken chinas for short trash hits tops the cake.
I notice some of your components are Bozzio-inspired. If you're looking to emulate the early-mid 80s LA new wave, that would make sense, but I can't think of many other US drummers in that particular slice of time and genre that had a more ecletic sound. So with the rotos, electronics and clasher (and depending on what you played) you may sound more like MissingPersons than say, TalkTalk.
I played in a dark sounding lower-east side (NYC) band in the early 80s and while we were far from a mainstream new wave pop sound, my kit could cover that if I had needed to. The kit was a hybrid of extremes: Simmons V (3 toms and kick) and a custom birch Eames (kick, snare, octoban). My cymbals were extremes of very dark to brilliant (with nothing in the middle) and I used an icebell and Paiste cup chimes as well. If I were to have played in a cover band at that time, I would have been able to represent most of the characteristic drum sounds of the day.
Hope these ideas help. Let us know how the project comes along.
I'll toss some ideas in the ring, although it might be helpful to others (who are old enough to have experienced it) what music you'll be covering. Also whether the project is to respectfully recreate 80s new wave, do a tonge in cheek/lampoon of the genre, or create a serious modern-retro blend. Frankly any of these approaches could be cool or fun.
Another factor to consider is whether you're giving a nod to the British/Euro artists and or the US artists of that time. The drumming approach and sounds were sometimes different as night and day.
80s new wave drumming means a few things to me: Simmons drums (series V or VII), triggered Farilight samples, and super low dead snare drums. Oh yes, and the electro or sampled claps. High on that list is Simmons drums, though. The single headed toms/roto toms would seem less-characteristic than the electronics to me when thinking of new wave.
All this might mean triggers, so one approach would be to pick up an Alesis box (D4 or similar) and trigger a 5 piece kit. Use the triggers to fire the Roland-esque samples in the box and if possible, pick up a used Akai sampler for the Simmons samples you may not have available from your 2 pads. The simmons pads are visually recognizable to that genre moreso than the drums.
The snare needs to be ass-deep and slow speaking for manh 80s songs, but you'll probably want a contrast to it as well. So it would help to add a hi-tuned snare (ala Stew Copeland) for songs that needed a crackin ahead-of-the beat backbeat.
In the 80s I usually opted out of a ride cymbal, so I agree with that. Having an icebell or similar is a good add if you need to ride (annoyingly!). And some stacked or broken chinas for short trash hits tops the cake.
I notice some of your components are Bozzio-inspired. If you're looking to emulate the early-mid 80s LA new wave, that would make sense, but I can't think of many other US drummers in that particular slice of time and genre that had a more ecletic sound. So with the rotos, electronics and clasher (and depending on what you played) you may sound more like MissingPersons than say, TalkTalk.
I played in a dark sounding lower-east side (NYC) band in the early 80s and while we were far from a mainstream new wave pop sound, my kit could cover that if I had needed to. The kit was a hybrid of extremes: Simmons V (3 toms and kick) and a custom birch Eames (kick, snare, octoban). My cymbals were extremes of very dark to brilliant (with nothing in the middle) and I used an icebell and Paiste cup chimes as well. If I were to have played in a cover band at that time, I would have been able to represent most of the characteristic drum sounds of the day.
Hope these ideas help. Let us know how the project comes along.
80's new wave
Sounds to cool...check out the band ,the epoxies...they are a current newwave/punk,that just totally kicks a$@!...You may dig em...good luck with the project.. I would love to play a moog for the band!
Thanks for the tips, guys!
I'll clarify the concept a bit. We are a cover of a cover band...in other words, we are all allegorical figures that represent the chief philosophical vices of the 80's. We are literally in the 80's when we play--completely unaware of the actual time period. Also, the 80's are not the actual 80's, but the Disneyland found on VH1's I Love the Eighties. Part of my motivation for making the band is being sick of how the 80's have come to be revered as idyllic, utopian times. I love New Wave, but growing up in the 80's was pretty rough. I've also noticed that our own age is more like the 80's than even the 80's were. So maybe part of the message is "This, too, shall pass". To that end, we should visually and stylistically lampoon the age--we should look like relics.
The basic plot is that we are a New Wave band trying to break out of Lansing with our bold new sound, which is really just covers of other people's bold new sounds, all of which will be outmoded in a few years.
While we are really more of a performance art/theater band doing something akin to Tony and Tina's wedding, we just want to get booked as a cover band since all the bands in Lansing are cover bands and that's where the money and the bookings are. So we're trying to slip the performance art thing under the radar.
Multiperc--I'm geeked about the SDS 200--I think the electronics are basically the same as those in the SDS V, but the unit goes for like $100 on ebay with pads and stands as opposed to the $1000+ SDSV kits are going for. The aesthetic of the band is supposed to be kind of slapped together--we're basically broke Lansing musicians appropriating whatever we can gear wise and look wise from all the music that is called New Wave--that means everything from Gang of Four to Prince and the Revolution. Also, Lansing is always five years behind the times, so it would make sense to me that an 80's drummer in Lansing would have concert toms leftover from the 70's with some Simmons drums and homemade electronics tacked on. I think I can borrow the concert toms--if not, I'll buy rotos because they are cheap and weird. I detuned my snare yesterday and it sounds great. I used the old just detuning 2 or 3 lugs on a correctly tuned snare--I think it works much better than detuning the whole thing and duct taping the head.
Some of the bands we're currently working on are Echo and the Bunnymen, Missing Persons, Blondie, the Cure, Til Tuesday, Duran Duran, Prince and the Revolution, Depeche Mode, the Psychedelic Furs etc. Some of the stuff will be pop new wave, some more obscure or big in England but minor over here.
I played in a new wave/punk/goth band all through high school and into college. None of our gear was right for the music we were playing though, and I always thought that made what was often uptight music more rockin'. Still, back then I was serious about the music and now I'm serious about the comedy of it.
I'm obsessed with the Simmons drums right now. In the past, I used a DK10 with a Yamaha brain and found that it didn't mesh well with live drums. Analog makes all the difference--especially the click function that gives the sounds more presence. I find the Simmons drums blend really well with live drums, and it finally makes sense to me why the drummers back then used real cymbals. I couldn't make cymbals and electronics work with my old gear. I also understand that dead 70's/80's drum sound more now. Cardboard toms, thumpy bass drums, detuned snares, and china cymbals or small chinas all work really well with electronic sounds. In some ways I can't see why anybody ever went digital after the analog Simmons drums. They make far more interesting sounds than digital samples do. At the same time, I completely get why people went digital--it's a challenge to make drums that sound like drums by turning the Simmons dials. My though with electronics, though, is if you want a really nice sounding snare, buy a snare--use the electronics to make sounds acoustic drums can't.
One of my problems right now is that I have three analog brains and only two pads. I'll run the SDS 200 into the simmons pads, and I'll probably run a trigger off the snare into the hand clap pedal. That way, I can hit the rim if I just want the clap sound, or hit the snare or rim shots if I want both. That just leaves the homemade synth brain, which is Simmons like, but in some ways does more and in some ways less. It has a much longer delay and can make some really weird loop type sounds, but it can't make very decent drum sounds. I'll probably build a pad for it using a cheap trigger I have. Part of me though about getting a Roland PD-31, though, and running that and the hand clap pedal into it.
I'd love to play a set of North drums with this band, but the one set I almost bought got away, and now they cost too much. Bow Wow Wow used them. I think concert toms work--Duran Duran and Phil Collins (not that he's new wave, but very 80's) used them. Rotos, I think of Bill Bruford and Terry Bozzio.
Oh, about colors--my main set is silver sparkle, which doesn't work at all. You're right about yellow or red, but I've got to go with the third color option of the 80's--black. The Simmons pads are black, as is the set I'm borrowing. It seems like in the 80's, black, red, white, and yellow were the standard colors and pink and turquoise were the crazy "out there" finishes. Pretty boring age for drum finishes, but at the same time, it makes sense for drummers who wanted 90 piece drumsets--you can always add on with those colors, unlike white marine pearl which has ninety variations in color and texture even before yellowing sets in.
Thanks for the help!
Will
I'll clarify the concept a bit. We are a cover of a cover band...in other words, we are all allegorical figures that represent the chief philosophical vices of the 80's. We are literally in the 80's when we play--completely unaware of the actual time period. Also, the 80's are not the actual 80's, but the Disneyland found on VH1's I Love the Eighties. Part of my motivation for making the band is being sick of how the 80's have come to be revered as idyllic, utopian times. I love New Wave, but growing up in the 80's was pretty rough. I've also noticed that our own age is more like the 80's than even the 80's were. So maybe part of the message is "This, too, shall pass". To that end, we should visually and stylistically lampoon the age--we should look like relics.
The basic plot is that we are a New Wave band trying to break out of Lansing with our bold new sound, which is really just covers of other people's bold new sounds, all of which will be outmoded in a few years.
While we are really more of a performance art/theater band doing something akin to Tony and Tina's wedding, we just want to get booked as a cover band since all the bands in Lansing are cover bands and that's where the money and the bookings are. So we're trying to slip the performance art thing under the radar.
Multiperc--I'm geeked about the SDS 200--I think the electronics are basically the same as those in the SDS V, but the unit goes for like $100 on ebay with pads and stands as opposed to the $1000+ SDSV kits are going for. The aesthetic of the band is supposed to be kind of slapped together--we're basically broke Lansing musicians appropriating whatever we can gear wise and look wise from all the music that is called New Wave--that means everything from Gang of Four to Prince and the Revolution. Also, Lansing is always five years behind the times, so it would make sense to me that an 80's drummer in Lansing would have concert toms leftover from the 70's with some Simmons drums and homemade electronics tacked on. I think I can borrow the concert toms--if not, I'll buy rotos because they are cheap and weird. I detuned my snare yesterday and it sounds great. I used the old just detuning 2 or 3 lugs on a correctly tuned snare--I think it works much better than detuning the whole thing and duct taping the head.
Some of the bands we're currently working on are Echo and the Bunnymen, Missing Persons, Blondie, the Cure, Til Tuesday, Duran Duran, Prince and the Revolution, Depeche Mode, the Psychedelic Furs etc. Some of the stuff will be pop new wave, some more obscure or big in England but minor over here.
I played in a new wave/punk/goth band all through high school and into college. None of our gear was right for the music we were playing though, and I always thought that made what was often uptight music more rockin'. Still, back then I was serious about the music and now I'm serious about the comedy of it.
I'm obsessed with the Simmons drums right now. In the past, I used a DK10 with a Yamaha brain and found that it didn't mesh well with live drums. Analog makes all the difference--especially the click function that gives the sounds more presence. I find the Simmons drums blend really well with live drums, and it finally makes sense to me why the drummers back then used real cymbals. I couldn't make cymbals and electronics work with my old gear. I also understand that dead 70's/80's drum sound more now. Cardboard toms, thumpy bass drums, detuned snares, and china cymbals or small chinas all work really well with electronic sounds. In some ways I can't see why anybody ever went digital after the analog Simmons drums. They make far more interesting sounds than digital samples do. At the same time, I completely get why people went digital--it's a challenge to make drums that sound like drums by turning the Simmons dials. My though with electronics, though, is if you want a really nice sounding snare, buy a snare--use the electronics to make sounds acoustic drums can't.
One of my problems right now is that I have three analog brains and only two pads. I'll run the SDS 200 into the simmons pads, and I'll probably run a trigger off the snare into the hand clap pedal. That way, I can hit the rim if I just want the clap sound, or hit the snare or rim shots if I want both. That just leaves the homemade synth brain, which is Simmons like, but in some ways does more and in some ways less. It has a much longer delay and can make some really weird loop type sounds, but it can't make very decent drum sounds. I'll probably build a pad for it using a cheap trigger I have. Part of me though about getting a Roland PD-31, though, and running that and the hand clap pedal into it.
I'd love to play a set of North drums with this band, but the one set I almost bought got away, and now they cost too much. Bow Wow Wow used them. I think concert toms work--Duran Duran and Phil Collins (not that he's new wave, but very 80's) used them. Rotos, I think of Bill Bruford and Terry Bozzio.
Oh, about colors--my main set is silver sparkle, which doesn't work at all. You're right about yellow or red, but I've got to go with the third color option of the 80's--black. The Simmons pads are black, as is the set I'm borrowing. It seems like in the 80's, black, red, white, and yellow were the standard colors and pink and turquoise were the crazy "out there" finishes. Pretty boring age for drum finishes, but at the same time, it makes sense for drummers who wanted 90 piece drumsets--you can always add on with those colors, unlike white marine pearl which has ninety variations in color and texture even before yellowing sets in.
Thanks for the help!
Will
Will
You didn't ask for more, but your concept is so hilarious and brilliant that I had to respond. I kinda thought that the lampoon approach was what you might be doing, but I didn't want to be presumptuous. I actually enjoyed that slice of life - it was hard, yes but at least I was doing some music that stretched me and was outside of the mainstream. So the musical referrences of that time (espeically those from Europe) were special to me.
Don't want to rub this in, but I gotta tell you that I have a set of 4 North toms. I was 'paid' them for a session where the artist/producer didn't have the cash (interestingly I didn't play drums in that session). I was fortunate to acquire them but since, have only used them for recording. They are totally clumsy to move and integrate into a setup. And for what it's worth, BowWowWow's drummer actually used Stacatto drums (http://bowwowwow.irbl.net/830617/fullim ... _009_f.jpg) which were even more unwieldly! You'd almost need a separate van for all of the wasted space those things can take up. So no North drums is a solution in your favor.
Why am I writing this? Oh yeah. In 1982 our bass player (from England, and a stylin' guy) urged me to get red Simmons drums. I kinda thought yellow would have been more striking. After speaking with the Simmons factory, I learned that they also sold clear 'shells' so the owner could spray or finish (from the inside) any color whatsoever. I ended up getting black Simmons V and used thin red graphics tape to customize the black faces (think Eddie VanHalen's 80s guitar but more futuristic). The combination was striking and original, and it was 1982-83, so it was hip.
Rotos are definitely wierd looking (in a good way) and would look ripe with a couple of Simmons pads. You might want to build a few trigger pads for the extra analog channels you have available. I did just that using piezo triggers glued under small rubber rectangles glued to clear plexiglass pieces (approx 6" x 4"). They were fine for triggering single sounds but not so good for any critical sticking. I carried over the red graphics tape concept to those pads but by 1984 I had begun to feel a bit silly about the 'futuristic' look.
Again, the concept and storyline is cool, and funny, and I'm enjoying just the thought of it. Let us know what happens with your kit design and project.
You didn't ask for more, but your concept is so hilarious and brilliant that I had to respond. I kinda thought that the lampoon approach was what you might be doing, but I didn't want to be presumptuous. I actually enjoyed that slice of life - it was hard, yes but at least I was doing some music that stretched me and was outside of the mainstream. So the musical referrences of that time (espeically those from Europe) were special to me.
Don't want to rub this in, but I gotta tell you that I have a set of 4 North toms. I was 'paid' them for a session where the artist/producer didn't have the cash (interestingly I didn't play drums in that session). I was fortunate to acquire them but since, have only used them for recording. They are totally clumsy to move and integrate into a setup. And for what it's worth, BowWowWow's drummer actually used Stacatto drums (http://bowwowwow.irbl.net/830617/fullim ... _009_f.jpg) which were even more unwieldly! You'd almost need a separate van for all of the wasted space those things can take up. So no North drums is a solution in your favor.
Why am I writing this? Oh yeah. In 1982 our bass player (from England, and a stylin' guy) urged me to get red Simmons drums. I kinda thought yellow would have been more striking. After speaking with the Simmons factory, I learned that they also sold clear 'shells' so the owner could spray or finish (from the inside) any color whatsoever. I ended up getting black Simmons V and used thin red graphics tape to customize the black faces (think Eddie VanHalen's 80s guitar but more futuristic). The combination was striking and original, and it was 1982-83, so it was hip.
Rotos are definitely wierd looking (in a good way) and would look ripe with a couple of Simmons pads. You might want to build a few trigger pads for the extra analog channels you have available. I did just that using piezo triggers glued under small rubber rectangles glued to clear plexiglass pieces (approx 6" x 4"). They were fine for triggering single sounds but not so good for any critical sticking. I carried over the red graphics tape concept to those pads but by 1984 I had begun to feel a bit silly about the 'futuristic' look.
Again, the concept and storyline is cool, and funny, and I'm enjoying just the thought of it. Let us know what happens with your kit design and project.
Those pads sound awesome! Ha ha ha.
Yeah, that North set I almost got was a yellow nexus, except the 12" came from the factory as a floor tom. Really amazing set, and I could have gotten it for $700. But I thought about all the money I'd have to put into buiding cases and how inconvenient they'd be to move (they were almost mint and yellow is a rare color for North drums--I didn't want to damage them), so I passed. The guy who bought them sold them on ebay for like $1500. Eek!
I forgot about Bow Wow Wow--those were Stacattos. Ha ha ha. Those things were ugly--I think North sounded better, too--especially the later injection molded plastic ones.
I think I will probably break down and get the roto toms. The only problem is that I'm a cheapskate and I want a 8/10/12 set, not the standard 6/8/10 set. It's easy to find a set of the latter for under $100, but difficult to find the former. I would probably put the roto toms in the tom holder in the bass drum, so I'd have three rotos and a floor tom, then two simmons drums above the hi hat to the left of the set, a hand clap trigger on the snare, and a homemade pad for the remaining synth somewhere else--maybe in a cymbal position. I might still go with concert toms, but that would just be so much gear to move--not very sleek or modern looking.
The SDS 200 only has two channels, so I'm limited to the two pads on that brain.
I like the pinstriping idea! Would it be wrong if I stole it?
Also, what do you think of running all the booms of the cymbal stands above the cymbals and mounting the cymbals so that the wing nuts go under the cymbals, not above? One thing I remember about 80's hardware was that people seemed to care more about it than they did about the drums--long tom lugs, cages, racks, 90 pound double-braced stands, etc.
Thanks for the input! Your old band sounds amazing. I think the music of the 80's made the culture of the 80's palatable. A lot of it seems silly now, but I think the best artists did find new ground worth pursuing. I think drummers like Prince and Boris Williams found areas of beat construction that still point to unexplored realms of drumming. I like how angular and strange a lot of the beats from that time period were--Joy Division, Gang of Four, Bauhaus--people really worked on creating esoteric sounds instead of blistering double bass chops that end up sounding like gas problems rather than music.
Will
Yeah, that North set I almost got was a yellow nexus, except the 12" came from the factory as a floor tom. Really amazing set, and I could have gotten it for $700. But I thought about all the money I'd have to put into buiding cases and how inconvenient they'd be to move (they were almost mint and yellow is a rare color for North drums--I didn't want to damage them), so I passed. The guy who bought them sold them on ebay for like $1500. Eek!
I forgot about Bow Wow Wow--those were Stacattos. Ha ha ha. Those things were ugly--I think North sounded better, too--especially the later injection molded plastic ones.
I think I will probably break down and get the roto toms. The only problem is that I'm a cheapskate and I want a 8/10/12 set, not the standard 6/8/10 set. It's easy to find a set of the latter for under $100, but difficult to find the former. I would probably put the roto toms in the tom holder in the bass drum, so I'd have three rotos and a floor tom, then two simmons drums above the hi hat to the left of the set, a hand clap trigger on the snare, and a homemade pad for the remaining synth somewhere else--maybe in a cymbal position. I might still go with concert toms, but that would just be so much gear to move--not very sleek or modern looking.
The SDS 200 only has two channels, so I'm limited to the two pads on that brain.
I like the pinstriping idea! Would it be wrong if I stole it?
Also, what do you think of running all the booms of the cymbal stands above the cymbals and mounting the cymbals so that the wing nuts go under the cymbals, not above? One thing I remember about 80's hardware was that people seemed to care more about it than they did about the drums--long tom lugs, cages, racks, 90 pound double-braced stands, etc.
Thanks for the input! Your old band sounds amazing. I think the music of the 80's made the culture of the 80's palatable. A lot of it seems silly now, but I think the best artists did find new ground worth pursuing. I think drummers like Prince and Boris Williams found areas of beat construction that still point to unexplored realms of drumming. I like how angular and strange a lot of the beats from that time period were--Joy Division, Gang of Four, Bauhaus--people really worked on creating esoteric sounds instead of blistering double bass chops that end up sounding like gas problems rather than music.
Will
Hey Will
We're off in a non-cocktail timewarp here....
I recall drummers in INXS and Midnight Oil (what a great band) both had Simmons pads mounted above and slightly forward from their mounted toms...which I think in both cases weren't toms, but rotos! 'Twas a cool look indeed and it made those drummers stretch....always a good stage visual.
I'd be honored if you appropriated my red-on-black Simmons pinstriping idea - just tell anyone who asks that the design was inspired by the drummer of a 'for 'real' early 80s NYC band called The Academy. Make it look great and post a pic if you end up doing it!
The idea of wierd hardware mounting angles seemed more popular for MTV (and especially with Quiet Riot) than in the actual post-punk new wave movement. I had to do some of that just to make stuff fit, but I was more concerned about losing a cymbal mid set had it been mounted upside down. I do remember those hardware designs appearing as the LA pop metal band sported more spandex and flourescent colors. Not really new wave.
I do remember seeing Missing Persons on one of their first (and better) tours. All the equipment, as well as the kit, was partially draped in a thin gauzy white material. A very spooky cool look that was not hard to pull off and was probably very inexpensive as well.
Since you're band concept seems more theatre than coverband-in-the-clubs, it makes sense to be true to the icons and styles you're representing. To that end, I'd suggest that you forget the bother and the look of those concert toms....really just too 70s. And your sound stands to be more distinctive with mic'd rotos. BTW, the way we got cool tom sounds before Simmons appeared (and post-concert toms) was by using rotos! CBGBs had one of the best sounding stages in lower manhattan at the time and rotos sounded like splitting thunder there!
Your comments to the music of Gang of Four and Joy Division are so on. It's funny that in that era it was so much about the color, flash and tweezy pomp ...and the absurdly complicated kits and hardware we dealt with. Now some of us (at least you and me) are playing cocktail kits! What an odd but great turn!
Hmmm.... I'm tempted to trick my cocktail kit 80s style!
We're off in a non-cocktail timewarp here....
I recall drummers in INXS and Midnight Oil (what a great band) both had Simmons pads mounted above and slightly forward from their mounted toms...which I think in both cases weren't toms, but rotos! 'Twas a cool look indeed and it made those drummers stretch....always a good stage visual.
I'd be honored if you appropriated my red-on-black Simmons pinstriping idea - just tell anyone who asks that the design was inspired by the drummer of a 'for 'real' early 80s NYC band called The Academy. Make it look great and post a pic if you end up doing it!
The idea of wierd hardware mounting angles seemed more popular for MTV (and especially with Quiet Riot) than in the actual post-punk new wave movement. I had to do some of that just to make stuff fit, but I was more concerned about losing a cymbal mid set had it been mounted upside down. I do remember those hardware designs appearing as the LA pop metal band sported more spandex and flourescent colors. Not really new wave.
I do remember seeing Missing Persons on one of their first (and better) tours. All the equipment, as well as the kit, was partially draped in a thin gauzy white material. A very spooky cool look that was not hard to pull off and was probably very inexpensive as well.
Since you're band concept seems more theatre than coverband-in-the-clubs, it makes sense to be true to the icons and styles you're representing. To that end, I'd suggest that you forget the bother and the look of those concert toms....really just too 70s. And your sound stands to be more distinctive with mic'd rotos. BTW, the way we got cool tom sounds before Simmons appeared (and post-concert toms) was by using rotos! CBGBs had one of the best sounding stages in lower manhattan at the time and rotos sounded like splitting thunder there!
Your comments to the music of Gang of Four and Joy Division are so on. It's funny that in that era it was so much about the color, flash and tweezy pomp ...and the absurdly complicated kits and hardware we dealt with. Now some of us (at least you and me) are playing cocktail kits! What an odd but great turn!
Hmmm.... I'm tempted to trick my cocktail kit 80s style!
Roto "Drum Kits"
Hi,Will!
Hope this Photo can give your "New-wave drum set"some idea!It's taken during the 80'
Hope this Photo can give your "New-wave drum set"some idea!It's taken during the 80'
Peter, you are by far the coolest drummer ever, and I've never even heard you play!
Multiperc--thanks for the tips. I remember how bad Jon Fariss used to be in INXS--I really liked his tom sound growing up. I really like what Budgie from Siouxsie and the Banshees did with roto toms on the Slits first album, too.
I've also been surprised lately about New Order--I always dug them, but then I started watching some of their concerts on DVD, and man...they are not that good. I mean, they write good songs and they have good concepts, but Stephen Morris had bad technique but lots of energy back in the 80's and has been losing the energy ever since. Bernard Sumner can barely sing, Gillian just pushes a button here and there, and Peter Hook doesn't play nearly as much bass as I thought he did back when my band was trying to steal everything he ever did. Crazy. But Stephen Morris had some crazy kits--especially the Ludwig Octaplus.
Today I picked up the bass drum and the floor tom. I made the bass and floor tom super dead--the floor tom could knock somebody over it's so low and punchy. They sound great with the snare. Since I don't have rotos yet, I mounted the pads over the bass drum. It's kind of a cool look, but I think rotos will look better and sound better in most fills. The Simmons drums don't want to be played like tradtional drums--it's like they want to be incorporated into the beats or used for accents like cymbals. Fast fills on them don't sound nearly as good as an eighth note or two here and there.
I remember in high school mounting a 6/8/10 set of roto toms on the school's drumset, and going from the snare to the 6" was really awkward. Do you think 8/10/12 is the way to go, or did I just not have the talent or sensibility to pull it off back then? What do you think of mounting them low to high, or 10/6/8? I like the idea of putting the simmons drums in front of them Jon Fariss style above the hi hat to the left for convenience. As far as heads go, I'm thinking of either going with black dot heads for the look or pinstripes for the sound--maybe black pinstripes to match the set. It's funny--I'm really into everything that I hated for years right now. I used to crank roto toms and now I like them low pitched. I've always hated disco tuning and now my new wave set embodies it. And I'm having a blast! I even put my friend's unbelievably heavy Sabian Pro hi hats on the set and they sound great. All this stuff I never would have played before...crazy.
I kind of like the look of the upside down cymbal arms right now--mainly because I think it would be completely appropriate if my cymbals kept falling off the stands during the show. In The Academy, you had to worry about things going well. In this band, I have to worry about things going badly. Every show should end with a band fight or an audience fight. So stuff has to happen gear wise and dialog wise to put the characters in a bad mood.
What was your trick for the CBGB's roto tom sound? It must have been exciting to be a part of that scene. I had friends who played their in the late eighties and early nineties, but I heard by then, anybody could get a gig and there wasn't much of a thrill to the experience.
Thanks for talking me out of the concert toms--you are right--they aren't sleek enough or hip enough for a totally 80's set.
Will
Multiperc--thanks for the tips. I remember how bad Jon Fariss used to be in INXS--I really liked his tom sound growing up. I really like what Budgie from Siouxsie and the Banshees did with roto toms on the Slits first album, too.
I've also been surprised lately about New Order--I always dug them, but then I started watching some of their concerts on DVD, and man...they are not that good. I mean, they write good songs and they have good concepts, but Stephen Morris had bad technique but lots of energy back in the 80's and has been losing the energy ever since. Bernard Sumner can barely sing, Gillian just pushes a button here and there, and Peter Hook doesn't play nearly as much bass as I thought he did back when my band was trying to steal everything he ever did. Crazy. But Stephen Morris had some crazy kits--especially the Ludwig Octaplus.
Today I picked up the bass drum and the floor tom. I made the bass and floor tom super dead--the floor tom could knock somebody over it's so low and punchy. They sound great with the snare. Since I don't have rotos yet, I mounted the pads over the bass drum. It's kind of a cool look, but I think rotos will look better and sound better in most fills. The Simmons drums don't want to be played like tradtional drums--it's like they want to be incorporated into the beats or used for accents like cymbals. Fast fills on them don't sound nearly as good as an eighth note or two here and there.
I remember in high school mounting a 6/8/10 set of roto toms on the school's drumset, and going from the snare to the 6" was really awkward. Do you think 8/10/12 is the way to go, or did I just not have the talent or sensibility to pull it off back then? What do you think of mounting them low to high, or 10/6/8? I like the idea of putting the simmons drums in front of them Jon Fariss style above the hi hat to the left for convenience. As far as heads go, I'm thinking of either going with black dot heads for the look or pinstripes for the sound--maybe black pinstripes to match the set. It's funny--I'm really into everything that I hated for years right now. I used to crank roto toms and now I like them low pitched. I've always hated disco tuning and now my new wave set embodies it. And I'm having a blast! I even put my friend's unbelievably heavy Sabian Pro hi hats on the set and they sound great. All this stuff I never would have played before...crazy.
I kind of like the look of the upside down cymbal arms right now--mainly because I think it would be completely appropriate if my cymbals kept falling off the stands during the show. In The Academy, you had to worry about things going well. In this band, I have to worry about things going badly. Every show should end with a band fight or an audience fight. So stuff has to happen gear wise and dialog wise to put the characters in a bad mood.
What was your trick for the CBGB's roto tom sound? It must have been exciting to be a part of that scene. I had friends who played their in the late eighties and early nineties, but I heard by then, anybody could get a gig and there wasn't much of a thrill to the experience.
Thanks for talking me out of the concert toms--you are right--they aren't sleek enough or hip enough for a totally 80's set.
Will
Will
I nearly fell over laughing reading this...and picturing everything going wrong in the stage show. Too freakin' brilliant!!! Go ahead and mount em upside down - here's to ya!
I think black pinstripes would sound and look cool for what you're doing. I have a set of Ludwig silver dot heads on my North drums and also used them for a short time on my full Eames birch kit (back in the early 80s). If silver dot heads are still available you might want to give them a try as well - a bit more brittle than the Remo film and therefore a different and sharper attack but with a similar decay.
TerryBozzio early on licked the problem of mounting drums or rotos above the hats and the awkward gyrations necessary to get to them from elsewhere on the kit...he mounted them just under the hats. When I used 6/8/10 and then later 8/10/12 rotos, I mounted all or the smallest 2 just under my hats. This gave me some advantages to using those drums without the too-jerky movements and mishaps.
Frankly, the idea of drums mounted over the hats is not appealing and is reminiscent of some of the setups from the 70s (which I also did but have never liked since). If you're looking to do Moon/Cobham runs spanning high to low toms (though not a very 80s new wave thing at all) you'd probably need to mount them over the hats. But if that's not what you're going to be doing, then experiment with a couple of the rotos in front of you and a couple to your left perhaps just below the hats. I remember discovering some new patterns and parts just from that positioning. And even today, I have a timbale or popcorn snare there!
I actually used the 3 Simmons pads as toms in my Academy kit and loved the challenge of creating angular kit sounds and the ability to change up single drum sounds quickly using each module's presets. It sounds like you may not be interested in doing this, but if you do, consider if the 2 channels is enough to pull it off and if your Simmons brain has some preset memories. My SDS V kit worked well for doing just this and I know that there were many an early 80s band where the drummer relied solely on Simmons drums for the entire kit (less cymbals). Give it a try before going roto, unless you have very specific non-drum Simmons sounds you're planning to use.
Back then, there was really no trick to getting an amazing sound at CBGBs. The old system and room reeked post punk and drums always sounded slammin. I used 10" and 18" rotos (I think) tuned low with black dot or silver dot heads and some tape for muffling. I never tried using pinstripes or Evans heads on rotos back then. However, the PA and room did all the work. Then Simmons drums appeared.....
I have a couple of old photos somewhere of my drums from those days - the first incarnation of my double Simmons/Eames kit (just before the rad red pinstriping) sans a few cymbals, which shortly after became the Academy kit. If you're interested, I'll try to find them and post for you. Let me know.
Peter was very generous to do that, considering he probably also had to scan the photos (I wish my old photos were that good). And BTW Peter, you always amaze me with your kit designs, it's almost hard to believe you concocted that drum setup as early as the 80s!
I gotta know - how may left feet you actually have?!?
I nearly fell over laughing reading this...and picturing everything going wrong in the stage show. Too freakin' brilliant!!! Go ahead and mount em upside down - here's to ya!
I think black pinstripes would sound and look cool for what you're doing. I have a set of Ludwig silver dot heads on my North drums and also used them for a short time on my full Eames birch kit (back in the early 80s). If silver dot heads are still available you might want to give them a try as well - a bit more brittle than the Remo film and therefore a different and sharper attack but with a similar decay.
TerryBozzio early on licked the problem of mounting drums or rotos above the hats and the awkward gyrations necessary to get to them from elsewhere on the kit...he mounted them just under the hats. When I used 6/8/10 and then later 8/10/12 rotos, I mounted all or the smallest 2 just under my hats. This gave me some advantages to using those drums without the too-jerky movements and mishaps.
Frankly, the idea of drums mounted over the hats is not appealing and is reminiscent of some of the setups from the 70s (which I also did but have never liked since). If you're looking to do Moon/Cobham runs spanning high to low toms (though not a very 80s new wave thing at all) you'd probably need to mount them over the hats. But if that's not what you're going to be doing, then experiment with a couple of the rotos in front of you and a couple to your left perhaps just below the hats. I remember discovering some new patterns and parts just from that positioning. And even today, I have a timbale or popcorn snare there!
I actually used the 3 Simmons pads as toms in my Academy kit and loved the challenge of creating angular kit sounds and the ability to change up single drum sounds quickly using each module's presets. It sounds like you may not be interested in doing this, but if you do, consider if the 2 channels is enough to pull it off and if your Simmons brain has some preset memories. My SDS V kit worked well for doing just this and I know that there were many an early 80s band where the drummer relied solely on Simmons drums for the entire kit (less cymbals). Give it a try before going roto, unless you have very specific non-drum Simmons sounds you're planning to use.
Back then, there was really no trick to getting an amazing sound at CBGBs. The old system and room reeked post punk and drums always sounded slammin. I used 10" and 18" rotos (I think) tuned low with black dot or silver dot heads and some tape for muffling. I never tried using pinstripes or Evans heads on rotos back then. However, the PA and room did all the work. Then Simmons drums appeared.....
I have a couple of old photos somewhere of my drums from those days - the first incarnation of my double Simmons/Eames kit (just before the rad red pinstriping) sans a few cymbals, which shortly after became the Academy kit. If you're interested, I'll try to find them and post for you. Let me know.
Peter was very generous to do that, considering he probably also had to scan the photos (I wish my old photos were that good). And BTW Peter, you always amaze me with your kit designs, it's almost hard to believe you concocted that drum setup as early as the 80s!
I gotta know - how may left feet you actually have?!?
I'd love to see some pictures, and Peter, you really are an inspiration to everyone on this page--thanks for always putting your creations up on here to make us dream harder!
Silver dot heads! I haven't played those since I was 14! I remember the sad thing with them was they looked so good when you put them on for the first time, it was depressing to play them--that mirror effect just disappeared with stick marks.
Thanks for the tom mounting ideas.
With the Simmons drums, I'm finding that for them to look cool, mounting them almost flat the way I usually mount my toms just isn't working. I think I need to keep them at almost a 45 degree angle to really show them off.
As far as mounting them above the hi hat when I finally get some roto toms, that comes from spending a lot of time in the old days with a dk10 up there that triggered a Roland JV1010 keyboard brain. I used to play melodies on that with my left hand and drums with the right. Pretty ambitious. It's natural for me to play conga or bongo type patterns with my left hand against rock, funk, or dance beats with the right, so it's not exactly a decending tom fill issue. I could put them down where I'd normally put my popcorn snare underneath the hi hat, but then nobody would really see them. I do have another idea for mounting on on each side of the rotos in cymbal-like positions--I think that would maximize the visual appeal. I'm totallly into trying to use them as musically as I can, unless someone calls out for "Free Bird", in which case we might play a really awful 80's version where the really moving and emotional opening guitar chords are answered by syndrum sounding "deeeoooooos" on the simmons drums.
I like your comments about modifying my technique to change my sound and approach and vice versa. I probably won't mount my rotos under the hi hat just because I keep my back straighter and play more relaxed with my drums and cymbals up high, but I think I might mount them backward or work on changing my ears so that a fill going from snare to a tom pitched higher than the snare works. I think I've always subconsciously subscribed to the idea that the high tom should be slightly lower than the snare in pitch, but what makes that rule worth upholding? I don't know why I subscribed to it.
Silver dot heads! I haven't played those since I was 14! I remember the sad thing with them was they looked so good when you put them on for the first time, it was depressing to play them--that mirror effect just disappeared with stick marks.
Thanks for the tom mounting ideas.
With the Simmons drums, I'm finding that for them to look cool, mounting them almost flat the way I usually mount my toms just isn't working. I think I need to keep them at almost a 45 degree angle to really show them off.
As far as mounting them above the hi hat when I finally get some roto toms, that comes from spending a lot of time in the old days with a dk10 up there that triggered a Roland JV1010 keyboard brain. I used to play melodies on that with my left hand and drums with the right. Pretty ambitious. It's natural for me to play conga or bongo type patterns with my left hand against rock, funk, or dance beats with the right, so it's not exactly a decending tom fill issue. I could put them down where I'd normally put my popcorn snare underneath the hi hat, but then nobody would really see them. I do have another idea for mounting on on each side of the rotos in cymbal-like positions--I think that would maximize the visual appeal. I'm totallly into trying to use them as musically as I can, unless someone calls out for "Free Bird", in which case we might play a really awful 80's version where the really moving and emotional opening guitar chords are answered by syndrum sounding "deeeoooooos" on the simmons drums.
I like your comments about modifying my technique to change my sound and approach and vice versa. I probably won't mount my rotos under the hi hat just because I keep my back straighter and play more relaxed with my drums and cymbals up high, but I think I might mount them backward or work on changing my ears so that a fill going from snare to a tom pitched higher than the snare works. I think I've always subconsciously subscribed to the idea that the high tom should be slightly lower than the snare in pitch, but what makes that rule worth upholding? I don't know why I subscribed to it.
Hi,Multiperc & Will!
Thanks alot for your kind words.Yes,Multiperc,you're right,It's a very old photo and I have to scan it!But,it's good to look back at those old photo.it's bring back my good old memories! as for your question,I only have two leg!hehehe! 
As for Will!just remember Beatles's song "With a little help from a friend"
Regards,
Peter
Thanks alot for your kind words.Yes,Multiperc,you're right,It's a very old photo and I have to scan it!But,it's good to look back at those old photo.it's bring back my good old memories!
as for your question,I only have two leg!hehehe! As for Will!just remember Beatles's song "With a little help from a friend"Regards,
Peter
You've got a very interesting concept happening, Will. The idea of putting 2 simmons pads up high like cymbals is theatrical and especially effective if you're not using them as toms.
I did find some photos today and they were in rough shape - the scans didn't improve them either! So for what it's worth here they are - hope you might get an idea or 2 even though it's a different approach to where you're going:
As my memory serves (and these photos helped since it was forever ago), this kit circa 1983 included:
18x20 custom maple kick (natural stain)
5x14 custom maple snare (red mahogany stain)
10x8 single-head Eames custom birch octoban-tom (red mahogany stain)
3 Simmons tom pads
1 Simmons kick pad
SDS-V brain
LP samba cowbell
3 Paiste cupchimes
1 UFIP icebell
17" Wuhan lion china
22" K Zildj lite ride (ultra dark, 1950s)
18" K Zildj dark crash
18" Paiste heavy crash
14" Paiste RUDE
14" Paiste Dark hats
For The Academy I swapped out the kick and snare with a 16x20 Eames and 7x14 Eames, both birch and finished like the octoban-tom. And in addition to creating the red pinstriping on the Simmons pads, I added a cracked 18" UFIP china and an 8" A Zildj splash both off to the left above the hats and brain.
Excited to see where you go with your new 80s kit and band project!
I did find some photos today and they were in rough shape - the scans didn't improve them either! So for what it's worth here they are - hope you might get an idea or 2 even though it's a different approach to where you're going:
As my memory serves (and these photos helped since it was forever ago), this kit circa 1983 included:
18x20 custom maple kick (natural stain)
5x14 custom maple snare (red mahogany stain)
10x8 single-head Eames custom birch octoban-tom (red mahogany stain)
3 Simmons tom pads
1 Simmons kick pad
SDS-V brain
LP samba cowbell
3 Paiste cupchimes
1 UFIP icebell
17" Wuhan lion china
22" K Zildj lite ride (ultra dark, 1950s)
18" K Zildj dark crash
18" Paiste heavy crash
14" Paiste RUDE
14" Paiste Dark hats
For The Academy I swapped out the kick and snare with a 16x20 Eames and 7x14 Eames, both birch and finished like the octoban-tom. And in addition to creating the red pinstriping on the Simmons pads, I added a cracked 18" UFIP china and an 8" A Zildj splash both off to the left above the hats and brain.
Excited to see where you go with your new 80s kit and band project!
What a cool set!
Did you play either the acoustic or Simmons bass, or play both together like conventional double bass, or orchestrate parts with two separate bass voices? Also, that octabon is in such a strange place--a cool place, but not right in front of the snare the way most people would expect it. How did you use it? Did you mingle it in with the pads, hit it for accents, or use it for acoustic fills? The 20x18" bass is way ahead of its time.
Great cymbals, too. How did you use the chimes and ice bell? Were they for melodies, atmosphere, accents?
I wish the SDSV's were still affordable. They are the coolest Simmons drums out there. I like the SDS 200, but the toms don't have that cool metal frame on them or the riot shield plastic (they still go "thunk" when I hit them, like I'm playing on a Samsonite briefcase or something). I'm really finding it difficult to get the eighties aesthetic without the simmons bass drum. The pads blend in without the bass drum to frame them.
I think I'm going to pull out the old mound of glitter on the floor tom and snare heads trick for our opening number--it's cheesy, but it always looks cool and never gets old, except maybe when one minute later you're still getting glitter caught in your nose.
If I don't go for a band logo bass drum head with a light behind it or headless bass drum, I think I'll go for your mirror head idea--I like the idea that the audience should see our age in the past age/themselves in us, and a mirrored bass drum would be a subtle thematic clue. Plus it would look sweet and totally right for the era. It would also fit the chrome on the roto toms if I can't get black ones, and I could do silver pinstriping on the drums.
I'll try to send pictures in the set's rough form once I get the rotos, and then some finished ones once I get the look right.
Will
Did you play either the acoustic or Simmons bass, or play both together like conventional double bass, or orchestrate parts with two separate bass voices? Also, that octabon is in such a strange place--a cool place, but not right in front of the snare the way most people would expect it. How did you use it? Did you mingle it in with the pads, hit it for accents, or use it for acoustic fills? The 20x18" bass is way ahead of its time.
Great cymbals, too. How did you use the chimes and ice bell? Were they for melodies, atmosphere, accents?
I wish the SDSV's were still affordable. They are the coolest Simmons drums out there. I like the SDS 200, but the toms don't have that cool metal frame on them or the riot shield plastic (they still go "thunk" when I hit them, like I'm playing on a Samsonite briefcase or something). I'm really finding it difficult to get the eighties aesthetic without the simmons bass drum. The pads blend in without the bass drum to frame them.
I think I'm going to pull out the old mound of glitter on the floor tom and snare heads trick for our opening number--it's cheesy, but it always looks cool and never gets old, except maybe when one minute later you're still getting glitter caught in your nose.
If I don't go for a band logo bass drum head with a light behind it or headless bass drum, I think I'll go for your mirror head idea--I like the idea that the audience should see our age in the past age/themselves in us, and a mirrored bass drum would be a subtle thematic clue. Plus it would look sweet and totally right for the era. It would also fit the chrome on the roto toms if I can't get black ones, and I could do silver pinstriping on the drums.
I'll try to send pictures in the set's rough form once I get the rotos, and then some finished ones once I get the look right.
Will