Hi!
Sorry to clog this site with my questions--it's just that you all are the best resource out there for cocktail drum fans.
At this point in my cocktail drum building project, I have the heads, legs, and pedal issues solved. I've ordered a ten by eight inch shell for a high tom and the basic vision in is in place. I've decided to glue my two 12 x 15" drums together, fill the gaps from the bearing edges and snare beds, and use two conga handles to reinforce the connection and help me carry the drum. I'm down to a choice of two finishes--white marine pearl or fire orange satin from Sambarnard.net.
But I still have a big problem--keeping the snares from rattling while getting a nice tone from the two chambers.
At this point, using variations on Keith Cronin and Dinkus' baffling techniques, I have what I think is an absurd baffle. I wanted to use thin masonite as the "cookies" of the "oreo", but couldn't cut it well enough, so instead I have five layers of one-inch foam separated by mylar. In the center, I have cardboard blocking a 1" thick layer of fiberfill.
After all this, I have eliminated most but not all of the snare rattle, but have also completely choked the snare (which only has about 2" of depth before it hits the baffle) and the bass drum (which only gets about 12" of height before it hits the baffle. I also still feel a ton of air shooting through the top vent when I hit the bass drum, which means I'm not really blocking that much vibration to the top head.
My two shell halves aren't joined yet, and I notice that when I lift the top drum off the bottom drum two inches, the bass drum sound improves tenfold. That suggests to me that doing a 4"vent like Keith did would work really well, both in terms of improving the bass drum tone and resonance and in terms of sending less air against the baffle so that I could shrink the size of the baffle and give the snare a little more air. I'm tempted to vent the snare as well.
Keith, I guess this question is to you, since you are one of the only people crazy enough to drill huge holes in your drums--did you lose the roundness of your tone when you drilled holes? I'd like to keep a little wetness in the bass. How dry does the vent make the drum? Even though my drum is totally choked right now, I can still tell that the shell contributes to the sound. What I want to avoid is a sound that is all head and no drum. If you had the chance to drill over again, would you keep the same sized holes you have now? Do you still "hear the shell" when you hit your bass or snare?
Dinkus, I'm still curious about the non-drilling option. Did your baffle really stop the snare rattle, or just diminish it to acceptable levels? Also, how much did the drum choke or lose its volume?
We were talking about the idea of venting heads or getting those Evans vented heads. Judging from how much air shoots out of my drum, which has two air holes plus 32 tiny holes from where I removed lugs, I don't think venting the head will do much of anything.
Thanks for your help everyone.
Will
more baffling and venting questions
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Keith Cronin
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Mon May 13, 2002 8:21 am
drilling and venting and holes, oh my!
Famouswilly-
First of all, you gotta come up with a Plan B for your baffle - you're eating up WAY too much of the depth of the shell.
As far as the hole is concerned, the bass drum still has a decent tone. I use a single-ply Aquarian Classic Clear with Powerdot, with no muffling, tuned to a fairly low pitch. It sounds pretty good, and WAY better than it did without the vent. Dennis from Phattie Drums also recommends a Remo Powerstroke 3 for the bass head, but I haven't tried it. But to allay your fears, it is definitely NOT all head and no drum. The shell (and the depth of the bass chamber) allow it to have a pretty nice tone.
I found I had to vent the snare - otherwise it was just too choked. I started out with a couple holes, and finally added a third. If I built another drum, I would drill it the same: a 4" hole in the middle of the bass chamber, facing forward, and as many smaller vents as needed for the snare chamber.
Between the bass vent and the baffle, I have no problem with excessive snare rattle. I may hear a little buzz, but not enough to annoy me or to be heard over the sound of the kit being played. But until I came up with my wood/polyfill/wood baffle, there was so much buzz that the drum was useless.
These drums don't get a GREAT snare sound. But I've got a pretty good one, and the cross-stick sound is amazing. I end up using brushes and hotrods on this drum more than sticks, finding I can dig in more and get a fatter sound that way. The snares pressing up against the underside of the head prevent it from feeling as responsive as a normal snare head, and the head has certain "sweet spots" where it sounds best.
Hope this is helpful
First of all, you gotta come up with a Plan B for your baffle - you're eating up WAY too much of the depth of the shell.
As far as the hole is concerned, the bass drum still has a decent tone. I use a single-ply Aquarian Classic Clear with Powerdot, with no muffling, tuned to a fairly low pitch. It sounds pretty good, and WAY better than it did without the vent. Dennis from Phattie Drums also recommends a Remo Powerstroke 3 for the bass head, but I haven't tried it. But to allay your fears, it is definitely NOT all head and no drum. The shell (and the depth of the bass chamber) allow it to have a pretty nice tone.
I found I had to vent the snare - otherwise it was just too choked. I started out with a couple holes, and finally added a third. If I built another drum, I would drill it the same: a 4" hole in the middle of the bass chamber, facing forward, and as many smaller vents as needed for the snare chamber.
Between the bass vent and the baffle, I have no problem with excessive snare rattle. I may hear a little buzz, but not enough to annoy me or to be heard over the sound of the kit being played. But until I came up with my wood/polyfill/wood baffle, there was so much buzz that the drum was useless.
These drums don't get a GREAT snare sound. But I've got a pretty good one, and the cross-stick sound is amazing. I end up using brushes and hotrods on this drum more than sticks, finding I can dig in more and get a fatter sound that way. The snares pressing up against the underside of the head prevent it from feeling as responsive as a normal snare head, and the head has certain "sweet spots" where it sounds best.
Hope this is helpful
Famouswilly, all snares will bleed. This is not a bad thing, if fact I've yet to hear a snare that didn't and when they didn't they absolutely sounded like crap. I have very little rattle to none with my baffling at low volumes and at high volumes there is some rattling but it is very short, it goes with the crack of the kick. It is both acceptable for live and studio. It helps add that top crack to the kick sound if you lay into the kick. As with even traditional kits you'll notice when you hit the kick with your snares on, it will rattle some. As long as it's acceptable to you then all is well. During a performance with all the air and noise of most rooms you won't even know it's happening. I have no doubt that you'll get snare rattle with what ever you do whether your drilling holes or not. You will get better tones with combinations of drilling or baffling. Take your time, drilling is permanent and the wrong size hole will be just as detrimental to your sound as bad baffling, however there is little cure to holes in your drum that are wrong. My setup is great for country and rock due to how it's baffled and tuned. The kick is little over baffled for jazz but if played with the right stokes still pulls it off. I get fine tone whether I use sticks, brushes, blasticks or hands. My snare really does sound fine and I can definately see uses in recordings with it. Have fun and don't worry about small amounts of bleed unless your kick sounds like a snare!!!!
Dinkus
Dinkus