cocktail rookie seeks advice
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cocktail guy
cocktail rookie seeks advice
Hello, I?m new to cocktail drums and am looking for recommendations on sizes/set ups. If I wanted to purchase a single drum 1st , with the option of adding other drums later, which size would you recommend? I see some drum with 15? and 16? diameters. I was told that anything larger than a 14? for the snare top would be too loud/hard too control. Could you comment on this? Thanks, cocktail fan
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KeithCronin
If your cocktail drum has a baffle (an internal wall dividing the drum into two separate chambers), there's no worry about a 16" snare being too loud. Baffled drums are not very loud.
If you're playing a non-baffled drum (essentially a giant floor tom with snares under the top head), it may be more of an issue. The Yamaha Club Jordan is a non-baffled 15" drum - Yamaha does some pretty serious R&D, so I imagine a lot of thought went into those dimensions.
I play a baffled drum, and would not want anything smaller than a 16, because I don't want to sacrifice any tone in the bass portion of the drum. With a 16x24 baffled drum, I'm able to get bass and snare sounds that satisfy me. I do not use a separate snare drum - I put a lot of work into getting ONE drum that could generate both sounds. But I have a slightly radical approach, cutting large vent holes in both the snare and bass chambers. I'm happy with the results, but John Mettam gets great results with a traditional non-baffled, non-vented drum. So it CAN be done.
Read through this forum and I'm sure you'll get some ideas!
-Keith Cronin
If you're playing a non-baffled drum (essentially a giant floor tom with snares under the top head), it may be more of an issue. The Yamaha Club Jordan is a non-baffled 15" drum - Yamaha does some pretty serious R&D, so I imagine a lot of thought went into those dimensions.
I play a baffled drum, and would not want anything smaller than a 16, because I don't want to sacrifice any tone in the bass portion of the drum. With a 16x24 baffled drum, I'm able to get bass and snare sounds that satisfy me. I do not use a separate snare drum - I put a lot of work into getting ONE drum that could generate both sounds. But I have a slightly radical approach, cutting large vent holes in both the snare and bass chambers. I'm happy with the results, but John Mettam gets great results with a traditional non-baffled, non-vented drum. So it CAN be done.
Read through this forum and I'm sure you'll get some ideas!
-Keith Cronin
Just for the learning purpose what is John Mettam's secret. John could you give us some insight on your skin configuration or skin baffling technique. I like the sound of my setup but I also liked it without the baffling (more open sounding) but when mic-ing the kick it sounded like the snare. That's why I baffled up.
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cocktail guy
Great advice
Thanks for the quick response! I'm considering buying this drum on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... gory=10175
would you say this is a fair price for what is offered? Thanks, Cocktail Guy
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... gory=10175
would you say this is a fair price for what is offered? Thanks, Cocktail Guy
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Keith Cronin
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Mon May 13, 2002 8:21 am
That drum on Ebay looks nice - I never knew Tama/Star made cocktail drums!
But is it a fair price - who knows? Do you know what the seller's reserve price is? The current bid ($103 as of this post) is certainly low, but who knows how high the reserve is.
Sometimes sellers will tell you their reserve price if you write to them - might be worth a shot...
-KC
But is it a fair price - who knows? Do you know what the seller's reserve price is? The current bid ($103 as of this post) is certainly low, but who knows how high the reserve is.
Sometimes sellers will tell you their reserve price if you write to them - might be worth a shot...
-KC
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Keith Cronin
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Mon May 13, 2002 8:21 am
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cocktail guy
No Tama for this guy
I missed out on that drum, but will keep an eye on what is for sale through the lounge. Thanks again for your help. CG
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Keith Cronin
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Mon May 13, 2002 8:21 am
One thing I will suggest - make sure you're going to LIKE playing a cocktail drum before you spend too much money. For example, play a gig or two on a kit that just has a kick and snare, and leave your hihat closed to see what it's like to not use your left foot. Or even play a gig standing up - that's a strange experience at first.
I gig frequently on what I call a "microkit" - a tiny setup of bass, snare, one tom, one cymbal, and hihat. I did a couple gigs where I simply loosened the hihat clutch, and ignored the rack tom, and found it wasn't too bad. It's still not the same as playing a standup cocktail drum, but it let me know I could play those songs with limited instrumentation.
I love minimalist drumkits. But some drummer feel lost without a wall of toms and cymbals in front of them. So I recommend that you make sure you're comfortable playing a stripped-down kit before you start investing hundreds of dollars. You may have already determined this; in that case, ignore this advice. Good luck!
KC
I gig frequently on what I call a "microkit" - a tiny setup of bass, snare, one tom, one cymbal, and hihat. I did a couple gigs where I simply loosened the hihat clutch, and ignored the rack tom, and found it wasn't too bad. It's still not the same as playing a standup cocktail drum, but it let me know I could play those songs with limited instrumentation.
I love minimalist drumkits. But some drummer feel lost without a wall of toms and cymbals in front of them. So I recommend that you make sure you're comfortable playing a stripped-down kit before you start investing hundreds of dollars. You may have already determined this; in that case, ignore this advice. Good luck!
KC
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John Mettam
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2000 2:01 pm
Heads and Tuning
Hi Fan,
I believe I posted this somewhere else a long time ago but....
I have several Slingerland drums that are all 25 x 14 with NO internal baffle. I have actually not had a chance do own or do serious work with a larger diameter drum so I can't give any advice on those. After lots of experimenting I have come up with a head combination that works really well for me:
Top: Remo 14" Coated DIplomat - Tuned VERY tight
Bottom: Remo 14" PowerStroke 3 - Tuned quite loose with a fair amount of duct tape/tissue muffling around the edge
I find that having the looser the top head the more it interacts with the bottom head. HAving it tight gives the snare a nice range of sounds as well. There are basically 3 zones to play it. Dead center sounds a lot like a snappy tenor drum, 3 inches from the rim sounds most like a tight standard snare, and playing right at the edge with a little rim shot gives a slightly ringy picolo snare sound.
I muffle the kick so that there ius still a little bit of ring. I find that the ring really gives the small head some extra tone and depth. Adding the extra mass of the tissue with the duct tape lets the drum go pretty low before bottoming out. If your playing a small cafe or bar, the kick will actually carry and it mics really well for larger gigs. When I play at rock clubs, especially larger halls, I usually have to tell the sound guy to turn the kick down in the house. They get so excited about being able to make that little drum sound so big that they just crank it!
As far as rattle and buzz, it's not bad at all! Of course there is some but I would say not more than a lot of regular snares. What I notice more when recording is the snare bleed into the bass mic. The sound of the snares travels down the chamber plus you get a little resonance in the bottom head when you hit the top. This is also very minor and only an issue if you are doing some tight kick snare stuff in which case you may gate anyway. It's generally better if you look at it as one instrument and accept the character of the interactions. It's a cool thing!
Finally, micing. 2 or 3 mics works great. If you have just 1 go for the kick for a small medium room that the snare and cymbals will cut through, or an over head for a larger room. 2 mics I do kick and overhead (to cover my additional percussion) or kick and snare (if it's a rock thing). 3 mics, kick-snare-overhead. I have never tried stereo overheads because I don't think that it would really have much effect?!?
Hope this helps. Anyone out there want to descibe their head setup for a larger drum?
John
I believe I posted this somewhere else a long time ago but....
I have several Slingerland drums that are all 25 x 14 with NO internal baffle. I have actually not had a chance do own or do serious work with a larger diameter drum so I can't give any advice on those. After lots of experimenting I have come up with a head combination that works really well for me:
Top: Remo 14" Coated DIplomat - Tuned VERY tight
Bottom: Remo 14" PowerStroke 3 - Tuned quite loose with a fair amount of duct tape/tissue muffling around the edge
I find that having the looser the top head the more it interacts with the bottom head. HAving it tight gives the snare a nice range of sounds as well. There are basically 3 zones to play it. Dead center sounds a lot like a snappy tenor drum, 3 inches from the rim sounds most like a tight standard snare, and playing right at the edge with a little rim shot gives a slightly ringy picolo snare sound.
I muffle the kick so that there ius still a little bit of ring. I find that the ring really gives the small head some extra tone and depth. Adding the extra mass of the tissue with the duct tape lets the drum go pretty low before bottoming out. If your playing a small cafe or bar, the kick will actually carry and it mics really well for larger gigs. When I play at rock clubs, especially larger halls, I usually have to tell the sound guy to turn the kick down in the house. They get so excited about being able to make that little drum sound so big that they just crank it!
As far as rattle and buzz, it's not bad at all! Of course there is some but I would say not more than a lot of regular snares. What I notice more when recording is the snare bleed into the bass mic. The sound of the snares travels down the chamber plus you get a little resonance in the bottom head when you hit the top. This is also very minor and only an issue if you are doing some tight kick snare stuff in which case you may gate anyway. It's generally better if you look at it as one instrument and accept the character of the interactions. It's a cool thing!
Finally, micing. 2 or 3 mics works great. If you have just 1 go for the kick for a small medium room that the snare and cymbals will cut through, or an over head for a larger room. 2 mics I do kick and overhead (to cover my additional percussion) or kick and snare (if it's a rock thing). 3 mics, kick-snare-overhead. I have never tried stereo overheads because I don't think that it would really have much effect?!?
Hope this helps. Anyone out there want to descibe their head setup for a larger drum?
John
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cocktail guy
good deal?
hi, here is a description of the type of drum john mettam mentions in an earlier post. would i be able to purchase a new or used cocktail snare mechanism? is this the type of drum where i would need to crank the button to take the snares of? what do you think of the deal? I have been told I could get free shipping. thanks
SLINGERLAND CHAMPAGNE SPARKLE COCTAIL DRUM (USED) - VINTAGE!!!!
(CLICK FOR PHOTO) (CLICK FOR PHOTO 2) D:\Documents and Settings\keith\Desktop\slingerlandcocktaildrum2.jpg
$395.00 firm.
14" X 24" SHELL WITH CYMBAL MOUNT & BONGO! 2ND BONGO MOUNT (NO 2ND BONGO). With snare mechanism (not original, but no drilling). Not original legs (metal rods have been substituted for practical use)
[img]
SLINGERLAND CHAMPAGNE SPARKLE COCTAIL DRUM (USED) - VINTAGE!!!!
(CLICK FOR PHOTO) (CLICK FOR PHOTO 2) D:\Documents and Settings\keith\Desktop\slingerlandcocktaildrum2.jpg
$395.00 firm.
14" X 24" SHELL WITH CYMBAL MOUNT & BONGO! 2ND BONGO MOUNT (NO 2ND BONGO). With snare mechanism (not original, but no drilling). Not original legs (metal rods have been substituted for practical use)
[img]