Hi!
I am approaching the final stages of building my cocktail drum, and the images of the dunnet cocktail set and the reference point of Keith's set have got me thinking.
My drum is a 15" x 24" assembled from two 1960 Ludwig marching drums glued together. I have one 2 1/2" hole about an inch and a half underneath the snare head, and another one about 4" from the bass head, both in allignment with each other.
I've experimented with several different baffling techniques using various layers of 1 1/2" foam, cardboard discs, and mylar. So far, every method sucks. No matter how fat I make the baffle, I still get too much snare rattle (I know it can't all be eliminated).
The vents did much more than the baffle to eliminate rattle, so I'm eager to add some. Still, I don't want to end up with a kit polka-dotted with holes. So I'd like some experts to evaluate my theories and answer a few questions.
First of all, I think it would help if I trimmed the snare fan down two three inches. My hunch is that the more the fan is limited to a deader part of the head, the less rattle I will get from the bass. I shouldn't lose that much response from a stick hit to the top head.
Second of all, I think the baffle should be about 4-5" from the top head to maximize the depth of the bass chamber to maximize bass tone and make the snare part of the drum about standard snare depth.
Third of all, I think the baffle should be an oreo made from a dense, reflective material like masonite on the outsides and foam on the inside. My wife says I might want to use that studio sound proofing foam on the outside of the bass side of the baffle. My hunch is that the baffle should both absorb force but also reflect what it can't absorb toward the vent.
Finally, I'm not sure where to add a bass vent. Should I put it near the baffle, or near the head? I'm unclear on the physics here. My hunch is that since one is already near the head, I should put one near the baffle. Should I put it on the same side as all the other vent holes, or on the opposite side? Does it matter?
I'm undecided about adding another snare vent. I wonder if an extra snare vent might help the bass sound...maybe the vibrations that make it past the baffle will make it out of the vents more than they escape into the head.
Also, has anyone considered the idea of two baffles ever?
Finally, has anyone figured out a way to reduce or eliminate snare rattle without a baffle?
My goal is to start doing coffee house and book store gigs on this drum by March, and all that's keeping me from that (besides guilt over the amount of money I've put into this project) are the baffling/venting concerns, a few inexpensive parts, and the finishing materials.
I should get some pictures of the drum before I finish it...I've been bad about documenting the project.
Thanks for your help!
FW
Venting and Baffling Concerns
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Bruce (the K)
Venting and Baffling
I'm definitely no expert but I can speak to how Yamaha approached the problem with the Club Jordan. They used a very short snare fan (2 1/2 or 3 inches long) that could be adjusted against the top head with a knob, similar to an internal muffler. (I usually had it set fairly loose for lots of snare.) They also installed a foam ring around the inside bottom of the drum, right next to the bass head. They used no baffle yet there was very little snare buzz.
I don't know whether the large vent holes make their approach less valid or not.
I don't know whether the large vent holes make their approach less valid or not.
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fw
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Keith Cronin
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Mon May 13, 2002 8:21 am
My baffle is an Oreo-style - two plywood disks screwed down tight around a bunch of fluffy pillow stuffing. It does a pretty good job of eliminating rattle.
I'd be hesitant to mimic the Yamah design too closely, with those super short snare wires. Almost nobody I know uses the top head of the Club Jordan as their primary snare. Perhaps somebody can correct me here, but I think most Club Jordan players use external snare drums. My cocktail drum is 16" in diameter, so those short snares just wouldn't cut it.
Good luck with your project!
KC
I'd be hesitant to mimic the Yamah design too closely, with those super short snare wires. Almost nobody I know uses the top head of the Club Jordan as their primary snare. Perhaps somebody can correct me here, but I think most Club Jordan players use external snare drums. My cocktail drum is 16" in diameter, so those short snares just wouldn't cut it.
Good luck with your project!
KC
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Bruce (the K)
more venting about baffling
The foam ring was a strip of foam that was about 2 in. by 2 in. It was attached to the bottom inside of the drum. I don't THINK it actually touched the head. (It was mounted flush with the bottom inside edge of the drum.)
On the subject of short snares, I was one of those rare birds who did use the Yamaha top head as my main snare. Like other single cocktail drum snare heads (see the thread 'attn snare scientists'), the sound was much less consistent (and therefore much more interesting) than a conventional snare. I should note, however, that I went on to sell my Yamaha and buy a Peace Manhattan, mainly because I loved having the more conventional snare sound. I later realized that was at least partly because I didn't really tune my Yamaha top head anywhere near tight enough to get more of a high-pitched snare-type snap out of it.
Cocktail drums: plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose
On the subject of short snares, I was one of those rare birds who did use the Yamaha top head as my main snare. Like other single cocktail drum snare heads (see the thread 'attn snare scientists'), the sound was much less consistent (and therefore much more interesting) than a conventional snare. I should note, however, that I went on to sell my Yamaha and buy a Peace Manhattan, mainly because I loved having the more conventional snare sound. I later realized that was at least partly because I didn't really tune my Yamaha top head anywhere near tight enough to get more of a high-pitched snare-type snap out of it.
Cocktail drums: plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose
(Ducking my head as a brick goes by) 
I use the Club Jordon top as my primary snare. I thought about using another snare but I just like the idea of one drum..... well that and 3 toms, rack, cymbals. However what I really enjpy is the portability of a one drum drum kit and for my tastes, it's no Black Beauty but It's tweaked good enough for me and my ears.
Dinkus
I use the Club Jordon top as my primary snare. I thought about using another snare but I just like the idea of one drum..... well that and 3 toms, rack, cymbals. However what I really enjpy is the portability of a one drum drum kit and for my tastes, it's no Black Beauty but It's tweaked good enough for me and my ears.Dinkus
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fw
Yeah, you know, here's the other thing about adding a snare to a cocktail set--those puny 8" or 10" snares that you add on won't really give you a conventional snare sound anyway, so why not just go for one drum? The answer, I think, is that a separate snare lets you use the top head of the cocktail drum as your floor tom, and that is a totally valid approach.
My set is going to have a 10" tom, a hi hat, a small ride cymbal, and occasionally a cowbell.
The way I see a cocktail set or conventional drumset, floor toms aren't that necessary, even though I use one or two on a regular set. You get the low-end tone from the bass drum. So a 3-piece is fine--the tom can take the high-to-middle range and the bass can take the low.
Cymbal wise, I'm moving away from crashes anyway--I think rides are a lot more versatile, since you can crash them. I have a china and a pang, but I prefer using my 20" flat ride with rivets because it is a great ride, but sounds like gong when I crash it. So even though it doesn't have a bell, it makes my effects cymbals obsolete. I can splash with my 12" hi hats, so I don't need a splash.
So if I take that less is more approach to a cocktail, I can do about anything I'd want to with 12" hats, a 17 or 18" ride, a bass/snare cocktail drum, and a small tom. I tune the tom kind of on the low side, so that if I turn my snares off, the 15" drum is like a high timbale and the 10" is the low. The cowbell is mainly just useful for timbale playing.
For my regular set, I think I'm leaning toward a 17" remix ride on my left, a 20" medium ride and a 20" flat ride with rivets on my right, and 12" hi hats. I'm not completely crazy about the drum sizes on my set--60's Slingerland 13, 16, 22, with a spare 16x12 floor tom, but they are pretty versatile for rock or jazz. I think a 12, 14, 20 combination would be a bit hipper, and I'd rather be close enough for rock than close enough for jazz. I think I'd dig a 15" floor if they were a bit more available. 14's can be too high in pitch, but 16's don't speak the way I want them to. And even though I like the sounds of 18's, they are only useful in jazz as bass drums.
Replies to questions that weren't asked are always fun. Peace!
FW
My set is going to have a 10" tom, a hi hat, a small ride cymbal, and occasionally a cowbell.
The way I see a cocktail set or conventional drumset, floor toms aren't that necessary, even though I use one or two on a regular set. You get the low-end tone from the bass drum. So a 3-piece is fine--the tom can take the high-to-middle range and the bass can take the low.
Cymbal wise, I'm moving away from crashes anyway--I think rides are a lot more versatile, since you can crash them. I have a china and a pang, but I prefer using my 20" flat ride with rivets because it is a great ride, but sounds like gong when I crash it. So even though it doesn't have a bell, it makes my effects cymbals obsolete. I can splash with my 12" hi hats, so I don't need a splash.
So if I take that less is more approach to a cocktail, I can do about anything I'd want to with 12" hats, a 17 or 18" ride, a bass/snare cocktail drum, and a small tom. I tune the tom kind of on the low side, so that if I turn my snares off, the 15" drum is like a high timbale and the 10" is the low. The cowbell is mainly just useful for timbale playing.
For my regular set, I think I'm leaning toward a 17" remix ride on my left, a 20" medium ride and a 20" flat ride with rivets on my right, and 12" hi hats. I'm not completely crazy about the drum sizes on my set--60's Slingerland 13, 16, 22, with a spare 16x12 floor tom, but they are pretty versatile for rock or jazz. I think a 12, 14, 20 combination would be a bit hipper, and I'd rather be close enough for rock than close enough for jazz. I think I'd dig a 15" floor if they were a bit more available. 14's can be too high in pitch, but 16's don't speak the way I want them to. And even though I like the sounds of 18's, they are only useful in jazz as bass drums.
Replies to questions that weren't asked are always fun. Peace!
FW