I tried a new configuration on my cocktail drum, suggested by a former pro drummer. It's basically putting the cymbal, hihat, and tom-bongo drums differently, to make the setup more like a standard four piece.
- Robert Moehle
New Configuration - Robert Moehle
New Configuration - Robert Moehle
I tried a new configuration on my cocktail drum, suggested by a former pro drummer. It's basically putting the cymbal, hihat, and tom-bongo drums differently, to make the setup more like a standard four piece.
- Robert Moehle
You have to go with what works for you. If you are going to spend too much time or be too frustrated by a set up that doesn't work well then you need to change it. Just like on a standard set.
I'd like to move my hi hat to the right eventually. For now I'm using a closed hat there. Once I save up enough pennies to buy a cable hat (or modify the one I have) I'm going to do that.
Good luck with your set. It looks pretty cool.
I'd like to move my hi hat to the right eventually. For now I'm using a closed hat there. Once I save up enough pennies to buy a cable hat (or modify the one I have) I'm going to do that.
Good luck with your set. It looks pretty cool.
yeah the hihat on the left and 'toms' out in front suggest more of the trad kit layout. I'll take a guess that the positioning of a hihat on the left had to do with the availablity of the left foot for the pedal. but not so with a closed or cable hat!
I have my side snare to the left and small tom and other percussion in front with the bigdrum a tom too, so the drum layout is somewhat similar to a condensed 4pc kit, but I'm enjoying my closed hat on the right with my crash/ride and splash mounted above.
For me a variation on the familiarity of a trad kit (since I am a kit player) is refreshing and brings out new ideas in my playing - one very big reason for the cocktail kit in the first place. If you're not a kit player than this perspective may not affect you the same way.
Question back to you: how's it working for you? Can you maneuver easily? How does this positioning affect your playing or ideas you come up with?
I have my side snare to the left and small tom and other percussion in front with the bigdrum a tom too, so the drum layout is somewhat similar to a condensed 4pc kit, but I'm enjoying my closed hat on the right with my crash/ride and splash mounted above.
For me a variation on the familiarity of a trad kit (since I am a kit player) is refreshing and brings out new ideas in my playing - one very big reason for the cocktail kit in the first place. If you're not a kit player than this perspective may not affect you the same way.
Question back to you: how's it working for you? Can you maneuver easily? How does this positioning affect your playing or ideas you come up with?
I am a trad kit player too. I haven't used my cocktail kit yet. It is still under construction. I decided to build it myself. However it will have it's maiden voyage tonight. It is far enough along to take to band practice. I'm still waiting on the wrap material for the bass tom (something I've taken to calling it) but all the hardware is there. I've been blogging my progress at: http://mycocktaildrumsetbuild.blogspot.com/ if you would like to see how it's going. I will be updating it soon with tonight's practice and the progress to date.
I think it will be easier to get around than my trad set because everything can be right in front of you without much reaching. All the drums are together.
I'll post here how it goes.[/url]
I think it will be easier to get around than my trad set because everything can be right in front of you without much reaching. All the drums are together.
I'll post here how it goes.[/url]
Good luck with your practice tonight Mike!bykrmyk wrote: it will have it's maiden voyage tonight. It is far enough along to take to band practice.
The first time I took my Cocktail Kit to rehearsal I got a luke warm response... a lot of 'yeah, that's KIND of cool ... I guess?'
In the end it became a critical part of the sounds of one band (Cocktail Angst) and a real feature for some others!
We'll win them all over eventually.
- John
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Bruce (the K)
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:06 pm
This comment really made it all click for me. Seven years ago, when I started playing the drums with a Yamaha Club Jordan, I immediately bought a second cymbal arm so I could mount my closed high hats on my left, my crash/ride in front of me, and a 12 x 10 inch tom on my right. I used the main drum as my snare and this arrangement seemed perfectly natural.multiperc wrote:yeah the hihat on the left and 'toms' out in front suggest more of the trad kit layout. I'll take a guess that the positioning of a hihat on the left had to do with the availablity of the left foot for the pedal. but not so with a closed or cable hat!
Later, I sold my Club Jordan and bought a Peace Manhattan. I always wondered why the pictures of that kit showed the high hats mounted on the right and the crash and splash on the left. (That one has the tom mounted directly in front of the snare, which is again directly in front of the player.)
Now I realize that the high hats are traditionally mounted on the left because that's where your other foot is! If you use closed, passive hats exclusively, as I do, there's no particular reason to mount them on the left and it's more straight-forward to mount them on the right, since that's the hand you're using to hit them with! Duh!
Reminds me of traditional versus matched grip. When the drum is slung over your shoulder and at an angle, the matched grip doesn't work but once you mount it flat, directly in front of you, the matched grip makes more sense.
Funny the way people learn things.
Now I also see why, for players using a side snare, the closed hats on the right are a natural and the bass pedal mounted directly under the big drum is no big deal. You stand to the side of the big drum, with the side snare in front of you and your right foot just where it needs to be. In my case, where I keep the main drum directly in front of me, the pedal needs to be off to the right. Hence the DW 5000S SideKick pedal, which works great when the main drum is your snare.
I just reversed the positions for the hats and the crash/ride on my micro cocktail kit (see my misplaced post in the Discussion section) and I see why traditional players get such a creative rush from the cocktail kit. Everything feels strange, but in a good way!
Bruce (the K)
Practice went well last night except that one of our guitarists missed due to illness. Everyone else really liked the set, but kind of didn't get the point. Why would I stand when I can sit?
There are bugs to be worked out. I'm currently mounting the side snare and tom on a stand because I think they are too heavy for the bass tom. I'm using 8x12 and 9x13 toms from my std set for these. That means an extra stand to pack around and set up instead of simply hanging them from the bass tom. And it's a heavy stand.
I'm very unhappy with the snare sound. I've made a fan snare typical of those I've seen here. If anyone has any suggestions about that I'd love to hear them. It sounds like a crappy low-end snare that comes on the crappy low-end drumsets. If I can't fix it I'll convert to a standard bottom head strainer set up. That means more $$ though. Trying to keep that down as much as I can.
I have the 20" Zildjian ride I use on my std set mounted on my right with a cymbal stacker holding the closed hi hat on top. I bought some cheap 12" splash cymbals for the hi hat and their sound is not what I'm used to. (I have 70's vintage 15" Zildjians on my std kit.) These are mounted on an arm that puts them almost directly in front of me so I'm reaching a bit for them. This adds to the discomfort level so I'm going to move the hi hat around the bass tom a little closer to me. This means another leg mount needs to be added to the shell.
Even though my minus list seems a bit long (we do tend to focus on the negative, don't we?) all in all this is a great set up. I've enjoyed building it and I'm going to enjoy playing it (dammit!). I think it will contribute to the unique sound of my band and will certainly get a lot of attention.
If any of you readers have suggestions let me know. -- M
Finally on the minus side: standing up. I used muscles I didn't know I had last night. This isn't a surprise to me, I knew I'd be standing and I knew it would be mostly on one leg. I tried a tall stool but that got to my back. I'll get used to it. I will probably try a heel block so I can shift a little weight to my right leg.
Pluses: totally cool set up. Takes up a lot less room than my std set. A lot easier to move and set up/tear down, tom stand not withstanding.
I'm pretty happy with the bass tom sound I'm getting on both ends. The bottom needs a little more muting, it's still a little ringy, but I get a decent bass sound. I think that's because it's a 16" shell. The top side sounds like a floor tom. Just what I was after. The long shell seems to give it a great reasonance.
There are bugs to be worked out. I'm currently mounting the side snare and tom on a stand because I think they are too heavy for the bass tom. I'm using 8x12 and 9x13 toms from my std set for these. That means an extra stand to pack around and set up instead of simply hanging them from the bass tom. And it's a heavy stand.
I'm very unhappy with the snare sound. I've made a fan snare typical of those I've seen here. If anyone has any suggestions about that I'd love to hear them. It sounds like a crappy low-end snare that comes on the crappy low-end drumsets. If I can't fix it I'll convert to a standard bottom head strainer set up. That means more $$ though. Trying to keep that down as much as I can.
I have the 20" Zildjian ride I use on my std set mounted on my right with a cymbal stacker holding the closed hi hat on top. I bought some cheap 12" splash cymbals for the hi hat and their sound is not what I'm used to. (I have 70's vintage 15" Zildjians on my std kit.) These are mounted on an arm that puts them almost directly in front of me so I'm reaching a bit for them. This adds to the discomfort level so I'm going to move the hi hat around the bass tom a little closer to me. This means another leg mount needs to be added to the shell.
Even though my minus list seems a bit long (we do tend to focus on the negative, don't we?) all in all this is a great set up. I've enjoyed building it and I'm going to enjoy playing it (dammit!). I think it will contribute to the unique sound of my band and will certainly get a lot of attention.
If any of you readers have suggestions let me know. -- M
Finally on the minus side: standing up. I used muscles I didn't know I had last night. This isn't a surprise to me, I knew I'd be standing and I knew it would be mostly on one leg. I tried a tall stool but that got to my back. I'll get used to it. I will probably try a heel block so I can shift a little weight to my right leg.
Pluses: totally cool set up. Takes up a lot less room than my std set. A lot easier to move and set up/tear down, tom stand not withstanding.
I'm pretty happy with the bass tom sound I'm getting on both ends. The bottom needs a little more muting, it's still a little ringy, but I get a decent bass sound. I think that's because it's a 16" shell. The top side sounds like a floor tom. Just what I was after. The long shell seems to give it a great reasonance.
Not sure what happened to the last post but the closing paragraph wound up misplaced. This should be at the end:
Even though my minus list seems a bit long (we do tend to focus on the negative, don't we?) all in all this is a great set up. I've enjoyed building it and I'm going to enjoy playing it (dammit!). I think it will contribute to the unique sound of my band and will certainly get a lot of attention.
If any of you readers have suggestions let me know. -- M
Even though my minus list seems a bit long (we do tend to focus on the negative, don't we?) all in all this is a great set up. I've enjoyed building it and I'm going to enjoy playing it (dammit!). I think it will contribute to the unique sound of my band and will certainly get a lot of attention.
If any of you readers have suggestions let me know. -- M
Learning is what goes on here. Thanks, Multiperc, Mike, Bruce, all who replied.
Multiperc-truth is, I'm thinking of going back to my original setup - bongos in front of the ride/crash on the left, and hi hat on the right. Reaching across the main drum to get to the bongos is a bit more effort and maneuvering between the hat and ride is hard too - I tend to hit the upright holders when i do. Maybe I could get used to it but...the first way is way easier and since I'm not a trad player it just doesn't bother me much. Essence of the cocktail kit-make it what YOU want.
Mike - I don't know if this would help, but I get the best sound out of a snare fan if the wires are relatively short, 4 inches or so, and the top head is tuned REALLY tight. It isn't the same as a regular snare. But it's close and works well enough for me-part of it was just getting used to it, like the snare rattle from laying the bottom bass head. Passing thought - could you use maybe a piccolo snare? I've seen piccolo snare drums 3" by 13" or so for around 39 bucks at Musicians Friend and National Music Supply.
Above all keep on playing. The band will get used to it and even get to like it (until they figure out you're getting the girls after the gig because you can break down the set and pack it faster than they can!). Good luck and keep the blog going.
Multiperc-truth is, I'm thinking of going back to my original setup - bongos in front of the ride/crash on the left, and hi hat on the right. Reaching across the main drum to get to the bongos is a bit more effort and maneuvering between the hat and ride is hard too - I tend to hit the upright holders when i do. Maybe I could get used to it but...the first way is way easier and since I'm not a trad player it just doesn't bother me much. Essence of the cocktail kit-make it what YOU want.
Mike - I don't know if this would help, but I get the best sound out of a snare fan if the wires are relatively short, 4 inches or so, and the top head is tuned REALLY tight. It isn't the same as a regular snare. But it's close and works well enough for me-part of it was just getting used to it, like the snare rattle from laying the bottom bass head. Passing thought - could you use maybe a piccolo snare? I've seen piccolo snare drums 3" by 13" or so for around 39 bucks at Musicians Friend and National Music Supply.
Above all keep on playing. The band will get used to it and even get to like it (until they figure out you're getting the girls after the gig because you can break down the set and pack it faster than they can!). Good luck and keep the blog going.
Robert - I haven't actually priced piccolo snares, I didn't know they were that cheap. It would probably cost me that in parts to convert a tom to a snare. I'll check it out. Before I do that I'll try tuning the head up as much as I can. I used a 4" wide snare and cut it at about 4" so that's OK. Anyone try it on the bottom head like a standard snare? I'll turn the drum over and try that too.
So...getting girls huh? More like my granddaughter won't have to help me pack out anymore
and my wife won't be asking why I'm so late. LOL.
I'll be posting more pics in the blog next week. The rest of my wrap doesn't come until Saturday and I'm doing sound for a chorale concert this week so I'm totally booked. Too bad I'm not getting paid...
So...getting girls huh? More like my granddaughter won't have to help me pack out anymore
and my wife won't be asking why I'm so late. LOL.I'll be posting more pics in the blog next week. The rest of my wrap doesn't come until Saturday and I'm doing sound for a chorale concert this week so I'm totally booked. Too bad I'm not getting paid...
The snare fan on the bottom occurs to me because that's where it is on a standard snare drum. I think cocktail players have it on top because that's the only place for it on a one drum set up. Of course if you have a side drum then it would work.
At last night's tech rehearsal the drummer we had lined up flaked out so I wound up playing on "Baby It's Cold Outside" (Its a Christmas concert) and this morning I got a note from the director asking me to play for the performance. So now I'm doing timpani on John Rutter's "Gloria" and set on this song. I wish my shell wrap was here and installed on the big drum. I'd use the cocktail set. Oh well.
Pictures coming next week. I'll post them in my blog and on a sharing site so y'all can see them here.
At last night's tech rehearsal the drummer we had lined up flaked out so I wound up playing on "Baby It's Cold Outside" (Its a Christmas concert) and this morning I got a note from the director asking me to play for the performance. So now I'm doing timpani on John Rutter's "Gloria" and set on this song. I wish my shell wrap was here and installed on the big drum. I'd use the cocktail set. Oh well.
Pictures coming next week. I'll post them in my blog and on a sharing site so y'all can see them here.
Gae up and went back to my regular configuration, hihat on the right, tom-bongoes and cymbal on the left. If I had learned on a regular set it might have been easier to use a standard drum-type setup. But that - and potability and the coolness factor was what got me into a cocktail drum in the first place.
Completely off that topic - my drum will be used on two albums.My student assistant from the college where I work has decided to go with music full time - his band hopes to tour full time this summer, and he's recording a solo album at my place using the cocktail drum. He tried a ribbon mic as an overhead mic and thought it sounded great. I'm also recording a CD of songs I wrote over the past 20 plus years and I'll be using the drum on that. Thanks fo all the communications.
Completely off that topic - my drum will be used on two albums.My student assistant from the college where I work has decided to go with music full time - his band hopes to tour full time this summer, and he's recording a solo album at my place using the cocktail drum. He tried a ribbon mic as an overhead mic and thought it sounded great. I'm also recording a CD of songs I wrote over the past 20 plus years and I'll be using the drum on that. Thanks fo all the communications.