Hey everyone!
I just wanted to thank John, Keith, and everyone else involved in this website for months of inspiration. Between working on my cocktail drum and listening to Burt Bacharach a lot, I've come up with a new electronic-tinged lounge band idea that should start gigging in the spring. Seeing how everybody here finds creative ways to work with a small palate has influenced me a great deal. Currently, I'm looking into using my DK10, a keyboard brain, and a goofy old drum brain to augment my 2-piece cocktail set. I'm even thinking about trying to make one or two custom 50's looking, kidney-shaped electronic pads. The look of cocktail drums is totally sweet, and I'm thinking of ways to trick out the DK 10 to match the finish of my drum, which will be very loungy--fire orange satin flame.
So! Here is my current list of questions as I move toward completeting my cocktail set:
1)I'm getting sick of drilling holes into my drum. I decided at the onset not to care about the collectible value of the two 12x15" 1960 Ludwig marching drums I used to make the set, but still--I worry about putting too much stress on the shell.
I came up with an idea that would let me mount the 8x10" tom without putting the tom's weight on the shell, and I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the idea. As you know, tom isolation mounts usually don't come with the adapter that allows them to mount to stands. I'd like to get a 15" mount to go with the 10" mount I have, but bolt the two together instead of adding adapters to them and connecting them to a rod. The idea would be that the 15" wouldn't add resonance to the cocktail drum, but would distribute the weight of the 10" around the rim of half of the drum. For a 6 ply maple shell, that little drum is heavy--probably cuz I went for the 2.3" rims instead of 2".
One of the downsides of this configuration would be that the small tom could only be removed by removing the head, but that doesn't bother me. Another is that I couldn't tilt the drum at an angle, but I wouldn't anyway. The two chief advantages are even weight distribution and a lower cost, since I wouldn't need to buy an adapter. Of course, If I just buy two adapters, I don't need to buy a 15" Isolation mount. I'm sure I have a rod to join two adapters.
So perhaps the question is, should I bolt the 10" Iso mount to a 15" Iso mount, or not buy a 15" mount and mount the drum to the shell using floor tom leg style adapters?
2)One of the unfortunate things I learned working on my drum is that the drum that makes up the top half of the 24" complete drum is a little out of round. I was hoping to re-wrap the drum with one continuous piece of finishing material, but It looks like it would be better to wrap the drum with two 12" pieces.
I believe that vintage cocktail sets had to use two 12" pieces because the finish wasn't available in 24" pieces. Generally, a metal strip covered the seam.
My question is, does anyone have an idea for creating such a strip to cover the seam? I could go for a chrome type finish or even a black plastic one--I just want something that will make the drum have a professional look at the end. Any ideas for materials or mounting techniques would be appreciated.
Thanks for your help!
Will
tom mounting and wrap issues
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Keith Cronin
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Mon May 13, 2002 8:21 am
I'm not wild about that mounting method. For one thing, I think you're overly worried about the weight of the tom. If you're that concerned, put some sort of reinforcing plate inside the 15" drum where the tom mount is.
Also, RIMS-style mounts can be a bit wobbly. And the one on the 15 will be pressing down on the lugs, not up against the collar of the drumhead like it conventionally would. Overall, I think it will be rather unstable, and may not hold the rack tom exactly parallel to the main drum.
If you do decide to go ahead with this plan, work on devising an easy way to connect and disconnect the drums where the two RIMS mounts meet, rather than taking off the top drumhead - these drums can be tricky to tune, and you won't want to be constantly starting from scratch.
In summary, I think you're too worried about this. By simply putting a floor-tom leg mount on each drum and joining them with a Z-shaped steel rod (available from Phattie) you can join these two drums easily, in a manner that won't cause either drum undue stress.
Can't help you on the refinishing angle - that's the downside of your two-drum approach. Good luck!
Also, RIMS-style mounts can be a bit wobbly. And the one on the 15 will be pressing down on the lugs, not up against the collar of the drumhead like it conventionally would. Overall, I think it will be rather unstable, and may not hold the rack tom exactly parallel to the main drum.
If you do decide to go ahead with this plan, work on devising an easy way to connect and disconnect the drums where the two RIMS mounts meet, rather than taking off the top drumhead - these drums can be tricky to tune, and you won't want to be constantly starting from scratch.
In summary, I think you're too worried about this. By simply putting a floor-tom leg mount on each drum and joining them with a Z-shaped steel rod (available from Phattie) you can join these two drums easily, in a manner that won't cause either drum undue stress.
Can't help you on the refinishing angle - that's the downside of your two-drum approach. Good luck!
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John Mettam
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2000 2:01 pm
Tom Mount
Hey Willy,
I totally understand your dilema! I am constantlt trying to figure out the best way to add more pieces without drilling (my drum is vintage and has no mounts attached at all!) and getting them in just the right spot. I have a couple of ideas for you that are nothing new but just thoughts:
Keith is right about the Rims idea, because the mount is in the center of the semicircle all of the pressure would go down on that point causing the two ends of the semi circle to lift upwards giving you an odd angle. I have been thinking about this idea for a while just to add more percussion and I am just about to try it out myself. To help resolve the wobble/angle factor I intend to use rubber or plastic (whichever works the best) spacers (cymbal sleeves) between the top of the rimms mount and the underside of the rim. This will hopefully hold the Rims mount firmly in place and perfectly horizontal.
My reason for using the Rims mount is to add a mounting bracket (Ludwig style) give me the the metal bar half way around the drum. I find that I run out of rim real estate quickly with most claw mounts which makes it more difficult to play (I do alot of cross stick). Also, the LP claws clamp more securely to the Rims than to a Slingerland rim (rounded on top) plus clamping to the Rims gives a perfect vertical angle (I don't always want things tilted in toward the drum). I'm also hoping to find some clamps that are even smaller that the LP claw that will fit on the bar, perhaps some track lighting mounts or such.
To your tom mounting- Keith is again right about bolting two Rims directly together. In the end I think that you would find this frustrating between the lack of adjustablity and the permanence of the setup. You could try the rims setup with some standard mounts, ludwig style with Z bar as keith said, or you could prbably create a small ratcheted conector with a straight stem on one side and an L arm on the other. With all of the hardware out there you can find something that will work. You might also try a yamaha mount with a ball joint, this would give you more flexibility but more and heavier hardware
Another simple option would be the old tongue and groove style mounts that used to be popular for concert toms and old rail mounts. If you mount the groove piece to the tom directly it is VERY lightweght. Then you have to figure out how to mount the tongue part. It usually has a 3/8" rod that sticks out perpendicular to the mount (straight out from the drum). Find an adjustable clamp that will fit it and give it a try or perhaps a Yamaha mount on the Rims.
One last idea but a heavy one is get the Pearl mounting system. It's easy to install and remove and it's relatively small compared to the Rims. Put one on each drum and fin a small L arm (3 segment arm for extra adjustability) that fits the mounts. Simple and elegant!
Finally about the metal strip to cover the seem. I remeber someone who built a drum as you are (2 shells stuck together). They went to an auto stor and got a piece of decorative chrome stripping super cheap! Give it a try.
Hope this helps!
John
I totally understand your dilema! I am constantlt trying to figure out the best way to add more pieces without drilling (my drum is vintage and has no mounts attached at all!) and getting them in just the right spot. I have a couple of ideas for you that are nothing new but just thoughts:
Keith is right about the Rims idea, because the mount is in the center of the semicircle all of the pressure would go down on that point causing the two ends of the semi circle to lift upwards giving you an odd angle. I have been thinking about this idea for a while just to add more percussion and I am just about to try it out myself. To help resolve the wobble/angle factor I intend to use rubber or plastic (whichever works the best) spacers (cymbal sleeves) between the top of the rimms mount and the underside of the rim. This will hopefully hold the Rims mount firmly in place and perfectly horizontal.
My reason for using the Rims mount is to add a mounting bracket (Ludwig style) give me the the metal bar half way around the drum. I find that I run out of rim real estate quickly with most claw mounts which makes it more difficult to play (I do alot of cross stick). Also, the LP claws clamp more securely to the Rims than to a Slingerland rim (rounded on top) plus clamping to the Rims gives a perfect vertical angle (I don't always want things tilted in toward the drum). I'm also hoping to find some clamps that are even smaller that the LP claw that will fit on the bar, perhaps some track lighting mounts or such.
To your tom mounting- Keith is again right about bolting two Rims directly together. In the end I think that you would find this frustrating between the lack of adjustablity and the permanence of the setup. You could try the rims setup with some standard mounts, ludwig style with Z bar as keith said, or you could prbably create a small ratcheted conector with a straight stem on one side and an L arm on the other. With all of the hardware out there you can find something that will work. You might also try a yamaha mount with a ball joint, this would give you more flexibility but more and heavier hardware
Another simple option would be the old tongue and groove style mounts that used to be popular for concert toms and old rail mounts. If you mount the groove piece to the tom directly it is VERY lightweght. Then you have to figure out how to mount the tongue part. It usually has a 3/8" rod that sticks out perpendicular to the mount (straight out from the drum). Find an adjustable clamp that will fit it and give it a try or perhaps a Yamaha mount on the Rims.
One last idea but a heavy one is get the Pearl mounting system. It's easy to install and remove and it's relatively small compared to the Rims. Put one on each drum and fin a small L arm (3 segment arm for extra adjustability) that fits the mounts. Simple and elegant!
Finally about the metal strip to cover the seem. I remeber someone who built a drum as you are (2 shells stuck together). They went to an auto stor and got a piece of decorative chrome stripping super cheap! Give it a try.
Hope this helps!
John
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John Mettam
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2000 2:01 pm
RIMS Mount Update
Hi Willy,
I just got my parts and tried out the RIMS system for mounting around the top edge and it works really well. Just to recap, I added the rims mount to the top head and put extra rubber bushings (cymbal rod protectors) under the last lugs of the RIMS mount. This keeps the RIMS moutn from see-sawing when I put something on the mount. The edge of the RIMS is also PERFECT for clamping on LP and Gibraltar claws. Much more secure than the drum rim and parallel to the drum shell instead of at an angle when mounted on the rim. I'll get it complete and start a new topic with some pictures!
John
I just got my parts and tried out the RIMS system for mounting around the top edge and it works really well. Just to recap, I added the rims mount to the top head and put extra rubber bushings (cymbal rod protectors) under the last lugs of the RIMS mount. This keeps the RIMS moutn from see-sawing when I put something on the mount. The edge of the RIMS is also PERFECT for clamping on LP and Gibraltar claws. Much more secure than the drum rim and parallel to the drum shell instead of at an angle when mounted on the rim. I'll get it complete and start a new topic with some pictures!
John