I need some help from cocktail drummers (Project Build)

[SRT80]

I think I have made it clear I like my "slim jim phantom" style setup. I recently listed my cocktail stuff in the classifieds but since there have been no interest, I've decided I'm gonna go forward with the build. Want to keep it simple and compact.

I'm havin' doubts on the small drum. 14"x24" 6 ply. I want to have a 10"x4" snare hangin' on main drum and a standard cymbal arm with 10" hats stacked over a 15" or 16" crash/ride.

I'm doin' 4 legs. But I still have a concern with the drum bein' only 14" there is a chance it could be top heavy? I didn't know if a 16" with 4 legs would be much difference.

I have 4 gibraltar floor tom legs and the bottom isn't spread out that much. It looks like in the construction section of site, Kyle Bronson built a similar cocktail drum. 14"X24". I noticed he only used 3 legs and it looked like a couple mounting brackets. I didn't see any pictures with anything hangin' on the drum.

Maybe I should work on a balance idea. Maybe do the snare on the side and a single 14" cymbal for crash ride on the opposite side. And do the 10" hats around the center area?

Think I will be ok with the 14"x24" with 4 legs? Would love to hear any thoughts as I'm gonna get this build goin' this weekend hopefully.

Steve

[MusicMan]

Hi Steve,

You won't have any problem hanging a 10" snare from the 14x24 shell with either 3 or 4 legs. Just be sure to put the legs in balanced positions around the drum to keep it steady. 4 legs is nice because you can get 2 in the back and 2 in the front of the shell for more stability without getting in the way of the pedal.

My cocktail drum is a 16" shell with 4 legs and I have a 12x5 snare and a 10x7 tom hanging from it along with several cymbals and a hi-hat. It is very stable because the extra weight of the drums and cymbals actually helps to stabilize everything (as long as I keep the weight balanced around the shell).

Also, be sure to keep playability in mind when you balance things around the shell. That's the most important thing.

P.S. If you dont' have a snare drum yet, Pearl makes a nice 10x4" snare for only $60 called the "M-80" which has a special bracket (like a small floor tom bracket) that will accept a 3/8" standard percussion rod so it is easy to mount. They are only available at Guitar Center. If you don't live near one, just call the nearest store and they can ship it to you (don't use their website because they are only available in the stores).

MM

[SRT80]

Thanks for the info. Yea, I actually just seen the Pearl M-80 and that's why I said I'm goin' with a 10x4 snare.

I'm gonna do the 4 legs. 4 legs with 8 lugs look better as the mounting bracket are centered between the lugs. Like you said, 2 in front and 2 in back. And for the extra stability.

Gonna order that snare now!

Thanks again,
Steve

[MusicMan]

Steve,

When you order the M-80 snare drum, make sure you get the $59.99 price that is listed on the GC website (I think the stores have it for $69.99 but they will match the lower website price).

Be sure to put up some pictures when you get the build done.

MM

[SRT80]

Yea, I'll be ordering from MusiciansFriend (which I believe is the same company as GC) since there is no sales tax and free shipping.

Steve

[MusicMan]

Yea, I'll be ordering from MusiciansFriend (which I believe is the same company as GC) since there is no sales tax and free shipping.

Steve

Steve,

If you order it from Musicians Friend, you won't get the snare until sometime in August. Pearl does not have any stock of that item in any of their distribution centers. Guitar Center bought up all of Pearl's stock of that snare drum before Christmas last year and sent a few to each of their stores.

Also, there isn't any guarantee that Pearl will stock the item again (since it is not even in their 2011 catalog), so it might be worth the extra few bucks to pick one up now at a Guitar Center location. They are occasionally listed on eBay, but they typically sell for the same amount ($60) there too.

MM

[SRT80]

Well I called my Guitar Center and they didn't have them in stock. I decided not to order one anyways.

I picked up a really cheap Pearl forum 14" tom. So I'm gonna use all that hardware and have the drum wrapped in gold glass glitter to match my other kit (posted in "going another route" thread).

I really like a larger snare. A 12" would be perfect, but I think too heavy for the 14" drum. So, I'm gonna use my 13" on the side.

This gives me options. I can sit and play my other kit (or stand) or use a cocktail drum with the snare.

The only downside is, the cocktail drum is only gonna be 6 lugs to a side. But I have actually seen others with 6 lugs, but 8 seems more common.

Just gonna do 3 legs as I will only be having a couple cymbals on the main drum. Haven't decided if I want to do the traditional stack since hbdrums sells those arms or do a separate arm for 10" hats and another for a 14" crash/ride.

Gonna drop all the stuff off this weekend and will post pics when complete.

Thanks for all the help/advice musicman.
Steve

[MusicMan]

Hi Steve,

Sounds good. I hope you can post some pics soon.

MM

[SRT80]

Had a little set back, but good to go now.

Picked up some extra lugs off of ebay so I will be able to do a 8 lug drum as planned with the 4 legs.

Also decided to go a different wrap color. Gonna do aqua satin flame. It just looks killer and I have always like the satin flames. It's a lot cheaper too.

Will post the pics as soon as its complete.

Steve

[MusicMan]

Steve,

Sounds good. Can't wait to see the pics.

I think the 4 legs and 8 lugs will be great. It should be able to support whatever you ad later.

MM

[SRT80]

There was a small delay, but finally picked up the drums today. I ended up usin the white satin flame cause it was cheaper and lookin side by side, I liked the white better. Also decided on a full size 14" snare.

Not the best pics and I kind of hate what the flash from the camera does to satin flame wrap. It really looks much better in person. I went with the 4 legs for added stability. Even if not hanging anything from the main drum it feels sturdy.

I love the sound from the snare. I mean, it sounds great with brushes. But I'm debating on trying to add a snare under the main head. Might be doin' some acoustic gigs with upright bass and acoustic guitar. The original plan was just snare only with brushes. But I wouldnt mind addin the snare on the main cocktail drum and be able to add a little kick drum as well. And this way I wouldnt have to worry about hauling the extra snare and stand around.

Steve

[MusicMan]

Hi Steve,

The white wrap looks cool!

I have a suggestion for you ... rather than install a snare under the top head of the cocktail drum, you could put a 7/8" diameter tom mount (e.g. Pearl BT-3) in the side of the drum and use just the snare basket to hold the snare drum next to the cocktail drum (without needing to use the lower section of the snare stand in the photo).

For a 14" snare, you would definitely need something sturdying than the typical percussion bracket that are used on standard cocktail kits. You can just adjust the upper post of your snare stand at a right angle and insert it into a tom mount in the side of the drum so that the basket will hold the snare drum off of the side of the main drum. Just be sure to measure the exact position of the tom mount so that the snare drum is at the same height (or a little higher) than the top rim of the main drum.

Besides the better sound you like from the real snare, you'd also have the advangate of isolating the kick drum sound and having the top of the main drum function as a tom tom. If you do mount a snare under the top head of the cocktail drum, it won't sound nearly as good and you'll get the snare rattle every time you use the kick drum on the bottom.

Just some thoughts ...

MM

[SRT80]

You're right. I think I'd rather carry the full size snare, it just really sounds so good. I think it would be too hard to try the snare under top head due to like you said....the rattling.

I then thought, do it like the peace manhatten kit. where the full size snare mounts over the main drum. I would have to have the main drum cut down and add the leg brackets to the top and to the snare and use straight L-rods to mount.

But I held the snare just over the drum as it sits and when I hit the main drum, it sounds the snare. So how does those kits even work?

I'm gonna keep it as it is for now. Still a lot less haul than a full size drum kit.

Steve

[MusicMan]

Hi Steve,

Yes, you should try to avoid puttng the snare directly above the kick drum because there is no way to eliminate the snare buzz (caused by air flow and vibration that can't be resolved by tuning). It's always better to mount the snare drum off to the side. Besides, you get the benefit of having a floor tom sound in addition to the kick and snare.

Unfortunately, it's difficult to mount a 14" snare drum to the side unless you use the snare basket method I described earlier and then be sure to balance the weight of that snare with a cymbal on the other side of the kit.

MM

[SRT80]

Yea, this snare has some weight to it. I don't think I'd want to attempt to mount it to the main drum. Although your idea is great about the snare basket.

I'm gonna keep my eye on ebay and craigslist in case I can find a descent 12" snare to mount.

Your idea got me thinkin'. That would be a cool way to mount a cymbal as well. Do a mount and use a mini cymbal boom arm.

Steve