hey,
nice site....i have a question for anybody out there...i play drums and sing lead in an alternative/power pop band....people have trouble when they see us play because they can't figure out who the hell is singing half the tunes....i am currently considering buying a cocktail kit so i can move up front....does anybody have any experience with this kind of problem? will the drum sound not be "powerful" enough for a full electric band set up in my genre?
thanks....
question regarding cocktail drums
I can't realy help with the vocal question I don't realy sing enough. You won't have a problem with volume unless you don't mic the kit. Read previous post and you'll realize that tuning is the key and not for the timid with these drums. I get good sounds and wouldn't hesitate to play them in any setting. Some people will hear with their eyes and no maker what you do they won't like it but other will totally dig the look and sound and in this day and age, a couple triggers, a brain and your small rig will be as huge sounding as John Bonham.
Dinkus
Dinkus
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fw
Wasn't there a band named Jellyfish with a drummer who played a mounted bass drum, mounted toms, and a mounted snare all on a rack, then had a remote hi hat and the usual cymbals and played standing up? He sang. His sound was huge as a result of playing the bass drum with a stick. Low's drummer does a similar thing on a smaller scale--mounted bass, snare, and a cymbal. If you need a giant bass drum sound but want to stand and play up front, that might be a way. Also, you could do the Slim Jim Phantom thing from the Stray Cats and just play a conventional set standing.
I worry a bit about the quality of the snare sound in a really hard-hitting band--my snare chokes at loud volumes, and John says he gets a slap-back sound. I used to--I don't know what I did to stop it. The snare fan keeps the drum from getting a lot of sustain, and I really like sustain when I play loud.
I'm with Dinkus, though, in the sense that you can do anything with mics nowadays. The trigger thing, though...I see a few problems. Since the bass and the snare are one drum, how do you keep from mistriggering without reducing the sensitivity on the triggers so much that you can't play ghost notes? You could play an electronic bass drum pedal, but then why go to the trouble of getting a cocktail set?
That new DW cocktail prototype looks like it could give you the volume you want--the snare is its own entity suspended above a cocktail type bass drum. I bet it's super expensive, though, and with round badge Gretsch or Club Jordan cocktail sets going for under $600 on ebay, it's hard to justify paying over $1000.
I have a question for the cocktail players out there--have you found you have to compensate for the lack of entertainment value you lose in not controling a bunch of drums and cymbals in the conventional way? I feel kind of naked playing a cocktail set with my band--the songs are folky and don't call for much, so it's great musically speaking to play the set with them, but visually, my arms don't move nearly as much. Everything is in close reach and I don't control the hi hat with my foot. I feel like the visual aspect falls flat. What helps is changing mallets and throwing a sizzler on my cymbal for one cymbal crash, then removing it. Things like that--pulling out shakers or these Indian temple jingle stick things I have.
Have you thought about moving your conventional set to the front of the stage, or setting up in such a way that you are the focal point of the stage? Also, are you using a headset mic, or a gooseneck/overhead kind of thing? When I've seen bands with singing drummers, I've always found it easier to pay attention to drummers with conventional microphones. The headsets are more comfortable, but they don't signal to the audience who the singer is. Also, they don't make you contort your face in the dramatic ways that conventional mics do. I have a crappy voice so I avoid singing, but when I have sung and played drums, I found that the extra thinking it involved made me look kind of boring at best and stupid at worst, at least when the drumming was difficult. I think I used to sing Whip It with a band, and with the sixteenth notes flying through odd time signatures, I couldn't really concentrate on being an interesting performer. It's cool seeing people like Buddy Miles or Don Henley perform (even though I'm not a big fan of his) because they can play and sing so well. It's cool that you can do it!
FW
I worry a bit about the quality of the snare sound in a really hard-hitting band--my snare chokes at loud volumes, and John says he gets a slap-back sound. I used to--I don't know what I did to stop it. The snare fan keeps the drum from getting a lot of sustain, and I really like sustain when I play loud.
I'm with Dinkus, though, in the sense that you can do anything with mics nowadays. The trigger thing, though...I see a few problems. Since the bass and the snare are one drum, how do you keep from mistriggering without reducing the sensitivity on the triggers so much that you can't play ghost notes? You could play an electronic bass drum pedal, but then why go to the trouble of getting a cocktail set?
That new DW cocktail prototype looks like it could give you the volume you want--the snare is its own entity suspended above a cocktail type bass drum. I bet it's super expensive, though, and with round badge Gretsch or Club Jordan cocktail sets going for under $600 on ebay, it's hard to justify paying over $1000.
I have a question for the cocktail players out there--have you found you have to compensate for the lack of entertainment value you lose in not controling a bunch of drums and cymbals in the conventional way? I feel kind of naked playing a cocktail set with my band--the songs are folky and don't call for much, so it's great musically speaking to play the set with them, but visually, my arms don't move nearly as much. Everything is in close reach and I don't control the hi hat with my foot. I feel like the visual aspect falls flat. What helps is changing mallets and throwing a sizzler on my cymbal for one cymbal crash, then removing it. Things like that--pulling out shakers or these Indian temple jingle stick things I have.
Have you thought about moving your conventional set to the front of the stage, or setting up in such a way that you are the focal point of the stage? Also, are you using a headset mic, or a gooseneck/overhead kind of thing? When I've seen bands with singing drummers, I've always found it easier to pay attention to drummers with conventional microphones. The headsets are more comfortable, but they don't signal to the audience who the singer is. Also, they don't make you contort your face in the dramatic ways that conventional mics do. I have a crappy voice so I avoid singing, but when I have sung and played drums, I found that the extra thinking it involved made me look kind of boring at best and stupid at worst, at least when the drumming was difficult. I think I used to sing Whip It with a band, and with the sixteenth notes flying through odd time signatures, I couldn't really concentrate on being an interesting performer. It's cool seeing people like Buddy Miles or Don Henley perform (even though I'm not a big fan of his) because they can play and sing so well. It's cool that you can do it!
FW
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Keith Cronin
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Mon May 13, 2002 8:21 am
The singer/drummer in Jellyfish played a conventional bass drum standing up, with a couple of toms and (I think) a permanently closed hihat - he was INCREDIBLE. What a player/writer/singer!
I think a Jellyfish-style kit would be better for power pop - you can't really pound on a cocktail kit, in my opinion - it's just not that loud.
I think a Jellyfish-style kit would be better for power pop - you can't really pound on a cocktail kit, in my opinion - it's just not that loud.
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roadhog
Stand-up drummer!
I play in a Motown cover band, and am the "other" lead vocalist, and have in fact noticed that people do look around trying to figure out who's singing. I'm in the process of building a cocktail kit (mainly for some of our smaller venues) and am really looking forward to trying this out. Note that you will be able to project better when standing, because you open up the air cavity more. Kyle...if you read this page, I'm curious about one thing...i ordered my shell from aitwood.com like you did (24 X 16) and was wondering if you did anything special to the bearing edges?